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At the risk of sounding rude, I have to agree with Sara. There are bad things in life, and good things in life. Yes we can look at life that simply, and place blame on everything and everyone around us for our problems. Or we can look at it this way: There are things in life. Situations, people, etc. They are bad, good, neither, both. But until we make a decision to react or let it effect us, it is meaningless. The only thing that controls your life and the things in it is YOU and the way you perceive them. Being a John or Hooker can have it's good and bad, of course. But even bad situations can be learned from and made into something good. I think in your case, you were in a bad situation with your wife, came here, decided to fool around, and in exchange, paid less attention to your home life. But in the same way, you could have picked another hobby, say ice fishing? In the end, it's not necessarily where you were or what you were doing, But What You Weren't Doing. Taking Care Of Your Family. That's not this sites fault, that's not any SP/MP's fault, that's not the computers fault, or the internets fault. It's Yours. It's a shame you didn't take anything good from this place. In the end, life is what you make it. This place has brought me lots of happiness, information, friends, experiences. I'm thankful for this place, and this life that I choose.

The last thread I read ,dunn2012's bad decision thread,caused me to think and want to write this thread about my thoughts on the "biz". Lets face it the "escort","serviceprovider","prostitution" business is controversial,in general society,that is.Ask your average joe or joann what they think about the" biz" ,most won't give positive replies.No matter what your education,looks,lifestyle,if you work or play in the "biz"the average citizen will consider you "less than".Yes there are exceptions,but they are exceptions.Have you ever taken part in discussions to which the"biz" is being discussed?We are always refered to as protitutes or johns,never sp's,escorts,adult entertainers,hobbyists,ect.It's sad but no matter how educated you are,or attractive,quiet living,clean,when it is found out that you make a living in the"biz"most will vilify you,not want to be your friend,won't respect you,rent to you,or even want to live next to you.Even knowing that we are responsible,kind,honest,affluent, contributing members of society.Why,anyone have a good answer.

I will never put a blame on CERB for anything that could happen to me in regard of this hobby. The first moment I became aware of CERB, I had no clue about what it was, if it was a "hobby" or if it was a 'lifestyle', and curiosity was my main motivation. After a while, it became far more than that, and I chose not only to become an active hobbyist, but to bring my contribution to this community in which I share some values. For sure, it's a kind of an "extreme sport" with all the risks related to such activities: confidentiality, professional reputation, eventual consequences on the family and the SO, money, etc. But that's a choice I made, and I assume the responsibilities of doing this activity. It's like everything in life, don't blame your skis for your broken leg, don't blame CERB for your broken marriage. Trouble in life is always a bad thing, and we all try to manage our life to avoid or to lessen the bad consequences of what we do; but consequences happen and we have to deal with them, that's life. Now, if we want to discuss the risks of this hobby, or for the SPs and MAs, the risks of this business, we could begin another thread, but I consider that we are all adults and we choose to be in this community for personal and professional reasons, but overall it is a free choice. It is too bad that our friend had consequences on his personal life and I hope he will find a way to find harmony and peace.

It's true that at the end of the day, we all make choices that we have to live with. But let me put something into perspective for some of you. And this might strike a cord with people who have had problems dealing with something they could not control. When the average person goes out for a drink or two, there's no problem, and they can leave the bar. They go back home, live their lives and nothing ever changes. Then there are some people, who will continue to drink, and not stop. It will interfere in their life, and will bring chaos and possible ruin to it. Nobody is going to blame the bartender, but still this guys life is gone south. When the average person goes to the casino, he/she will blow some money, get a thrill and leave. Not to have the urge to come back the next day. It's about fun, and control. Then others will continue to gamble, and destroy their finances. Nobody will blame the blackjack dealer, but the individual will still suffer the consequences. Let's face it folks, this is a vice industry as well. And for the vast majority, it's something like gambling, or having a drink. It's even referred to as a hobby because it involves an activity that is not a necessity but something fun. Most people can start, and stop when they want. I will say this, I think the idea of having no strings attached with beautiful women to be as addictive as gambling and drinking. So this gentleman may have a problem with sex addiction. Joining Cerb may have provoked it, and it may have been like opening pandora's box for him. How do we act towards alcoholics or gambling addicts? Do we shun them, or do we encourge them to get help? I don't believe SP's are to blame, just as a bartender or blackjack dealer is to blame. I do believe that as a service provider, just as a bartender or anyone else in the Vice field we have a moral obligation to steer someone we see that is having issues in another direction if we are aware of a problem. I wouldn't take what he says about Cerb or the industry personally, at this point he is feeling sorry for himself, and his loss. It's time that he gets the help he needs and move on.

I have to agree with this... If something as harmless as joining a website 'ruined' your marriage, it was already riddled with problems. Seeing prostitutes (typically) does not devastate families, even if they end up finding out. Money problems, violence, drugs and general resentment are usually what kill marriages. (At least as far as I can tell...lol) But, in all seriousness, if a marriage CAN be saved, I believe it can be saved at almost any time-- if not it might not have been worth saving to all involved. When someone leaves someone because they cheated, it's usually because there are other problems present... cheating becomes the straw, a good reason not to deal with bigger problems within a relationship. I'm not offended by your post, but I find it kind of pointless... If you're having problems in your marriage, leaving Cerb and hugging your wife aren't going to solve it.. I suggest people in this situation seek actual help, otherwise the same problems will just resurface and head you down a similar or worse path. Good luck!

Oddly enough, it makes me think of the way gypsies were despised in Europe for the longest time, because they had no land to tie them down -- they just travelled and lived as they could. Being without land or a community fixed in one place was contemptible, and this deviation from the narrow-minded norm implied you were unprincipled, irresponsible, and untrustworthy. If you hadn't bought into the prevailing institutions, you were a threat the Order Of Things. You were shunned and chased out of the area. I think even today, a lot of our prevailing morals have outdated, conservative roots, and come from times when churches held sway, communities were small and struggling, human labour was our primary engine for getting anything done, and Earth Needed People. The relevant old-time attitudes here are: a) making more people is the only legitimate way to spend a life b) marriage is the solemn institution in which you must perform a) c) sex is reserved exclusively for marriage in order to gild that particular cage d) prostitution is a threat to c) as well as b), and must be publicly condemned. So prostitutes, if they were known publicly, got the same treatment as gypsies: condemned, hounded, chased away -- even at the hands of their former clients. After all, we all know how ancient and universal prostitution is; that condemnation I mention in d) is about public display, not private behaviour. But it's a deep-rooted reflex for a lot of people who don't think this stuff through for themselves. Happily we're starting to emerge from that outdated framework. Same-sex marriage is one of the spearheads being driven into the heart of that particular institutionalized view of relationships, and shows the triumph of real-world experience and the tide of public opinion over archaic and fossilized irrational attitudes. I'm optimistic.

And in the same vein, it would be great not only if escorts were looked at in the same light as a banker, or other professional, but that guys weren't looked at as johns cruising up and down the street looking to "get off", but were in fact looked at as gentlemen, who have and do treat the ladies they see with respect. And that this lifestyle isn't an exploitive one, it is in fact mutually beneficial. RG

Usually once Im done scraping the drool off their chins I have a pretty good idea. Posted via Mobile Device

Jason's post got me to thinking. And the OP's original post is more akin to, lets say an alcoholic standing in front of a bar, shouting for all to hear that "drinking ruined my life, and this is the bar where I did all my drinking" More a case of him transferring blame, at least somewhat transferring (enabling I believe is the OP's term...CERB the enabler???) blame to CERB, and by extension escorts, for ruining of his life. Did getting involved with escorts and joining CERB ruin his life. Or just ruin any chance of saving his marriage....two different things. And emphasis here, he decided to join CERB. He could have decided to seek marriage counselling. And take the OP's post to logical conclusion, should CERB screen all prospective members before joining to ensure they are joining for the right reason, whatever the right reason is. I truly do hope he gets his life on track, but really, he could have, and should have just signed off by just saying goodbye, or better yet, just close his account. RG

I have seen all the flack in several different sites in regards to these ladies. I usually check through other sites to see just who is in town, and that way I can get a feel for how my week is going to be. Nothing wrong with ladies travelling and advertising their availability, I do believe that most of us do that. The problem that I found in question was the fact that these ladies were advertising themselves under several different names on the same sites at the same times. It just seemed a little obvious due to the fact that the pictures used in their ads were of the same three ladies with the exact same pictures. Coincidence? I'm not sure. Tattoos are a wonderful way of identifying someone, so if your going to show them in pics, use the same name in your ad. I mean, if your going to try to flood the market with advertising, at least use the same ads. If you are going to advertise yourself, at least place your ads and pictures with the same information. Guys that call us, use a variety of methods, believe me, word gets around when you are advertising that you are only 'arrived in Freddy', but guys saw you three weeks ago here. Be truthful in your ads, use pictures that are actually of you. Don't try to flood the market just to get clients, the guys do talk to each other. I too have been a victim of 'flagging' and bashing on cl, and on other sites, so I just stopped using them. I find that the gentlemen that use cerb are more courteous to us as sp's, and I value that. I see that the ladies in question have been suspended as users of this site, as someone basically said in a previous post in this thread, what goes around will come around. Just my two cents on this thought.

I went for a skate last night on the Halifax oval - first time skating in many years, and it actually went quite well! The oval is an awesome place to skate - probably right up there with the Rideau Canal possibly as an experience. Today we are going bowling and having a nice dinner out to celebrate the birthday of one of my kids. Cheesecake for a birthday cake afterwards. It's great being with all of ones family for a few days. :)

We know so little about the original poster. That makes it hard to draw specific conclusions, and I find myself trying to fill in the other details through guesswork, so I can decide what lessons can be drawn here. But that's a mistake. I can't comment on the OP's specific, real situation because I just don't know enough about him. But here are some assorted thoughts based on that post: - I think clients seek the company of SPs to fill a void in their lives. Seeing SPs can be expensive and risky (especially if you're in a relationship...!). That you'd choose to do so anyway should tell you that the need that propelled you was real. - In addition to being just a whole lot of fun, SPs can be fantastic resources for addressing that void, and not just with some immediate and fleeting relief. They can provide reassurance that what you're seeking is normal and healthy (whatever it is). And the experiences we have with SPs can equip us to ultimately confront and fill that void within the rest of our lives, without depending exclusively on paid companionship. Seeing SPs is perfectly healthy and perfectly normal. CERB made it seem that way because it *is* that way. BUT... how you integrate it with the rest of your life is up to you. - Seeing an SP while you're in a relationship is a serious decision and you have to take full responsibility for doing so. There's no absolute right or wrong here; everyone's circumstances are different. Some men's partners are sexually unavailable, unresponsive, repressed, or openly hostile. There are a hundred ways a couple's intimate life can be failing, and I think that for frustrated men, SPs *can be* a legitimate resource for addressing a sexual void. Ideally there would be a conversation and you could bring your partner on board first, but I understand how unlikely that is for most partners and relationships. But the choice isn't one to be made lightly, or carelessly, and you have to take full responsibility for the decision you're making and all of its possible consequences. - And finally, on that note: what to do if you're caught. I don't know if the OP was just caught visiting CERB, or having seen an SP, or what... but regardless, the game is up and your diversion is exposed. Now what...? Well, one choice is to condemn the entire sex industry and its entire apparatus, including CERB and everyone on it, for making itself seem legitimate. Run away from the whole thing, condemn the instincts that ever drove you here, and try your hardest to restore your life to the before-state and pretend nothing happened. ... OR ... Recognize that what drove you to seek out CERB might have been a legitimate need. Now that your partner knows what you were doing, it's time to talk to her about it, why you felt you couldn't talk with her about it before, and decide what you're going to do about it. I don't know if seeking out SPs was a serious or whimsical decision for you, whether it was ultimately justified or unjustified, but you made it and this is your chance to build a life that recognizes that choice, instead of running away from it. If you can't at least make your wife understand your decision by the time the conversation is done, then you've found an even larger problem in your relationship. Personally I recommend the second course of action. Because the first one -- denying something is missing for you, and blaming others for your decision -- is likely to fail in the long term, and I predict you'll end up in a similar place in the future. Only then it'll be steeped even further in shame, and so maybe it'll be just some ugly impulsive street action, and oboy... now you're screwing up in twenty new and different ways. Learn something from this. Don't just condemn it reflexively. And build a better life with what you've learned. Lots of us are already doing that, and speaking personally, being here on CERB *is* part of that better life for me.

I think it's easy to understand the knee jerk reaction, when the sky falls in, to blame the obvious which in this case is CERB. My guess would be the OP's SO found evidence of his escapades and he is now paying the piper and his post is rationalizing his current life situation. With some people, it takes time for the actual act of taking personal responsibility for one's actions to sink in and become reality. There are some people that never reach that conclusion, it is always someone or something else's fault and they never reach the emotional maturity needed to accept they brought the situation on themselves and the situation they face is because of their choices and subsequent actions. Everyone entering into our little corner of the world understands the risks involved even when they won't admit them out loud. Most just hope that the worst case scenario never comes to fruition and have no coping strategy in place in the event it does. Indulging in the services offered here comes with knowledge that you may have to account for your actions and it should never be assumed you will not "get caught". This is exceedingly poor planning in my opinion. If you make the choice to participate, own it. Contrary to popular opinion, this is not a hobby or a sport and has the potential to bring great experiences or complete devastation to one's life depending on how you see the world and choose to cope with the results of your decisions. cat

Yes, they absolutely help, and each and every review is appreciated. The MA experience is obviously very different from the SP, but just like any intimate encounter, many gentleman want to know what to expect beforehand. Does the girl talk, is she smart, does she hammer your back with her fists, etc. All good things to know before! Some people prefer a particular kind of encounter, and for me, I appreciate the reviews written about me because they'll help draw clients to me who look for the particular experience I offer. Which helps to make for a happy client, and a happy me!

I just got out of a relationship about a month ago, and finally decided it's time to move on. I have been following Naomi's ad for a while, but haven't had the courage to call, just because of a million different crazy thoughts prancing in my head. Anyways, I finally grew a pair and called the agency. Before I even begin to get about Naomi, I have to give huge props to the girl who answers the phone for them. She just was super chill, sounded happy, was extremely helpful, and just made me feel at ease. I don't know about you guys, but for me, I'm like so frightened just calling an SP or agency. I know I shouldn't be, but I just am for whatever reason. I'm not sure of the name of the girl who answers the phone, but she just alleviates all that unnecessary stress. I don't know if it was that she was just so relaxed and happy, but it kinda just was passed onto me, if that makes any sense. I get to the location and meet Naomi, first off, she is absolutely stunning. She is just one of the most naturally beautiful girls I've ever encountered. And to top it off, she was wearing lululemon! Talk about an ice breaker, lol, we both love lululemon. I was so mesmerized by her looks, I was going to give her my satsuma present at the end of my time, but just handed it to her right when I walked in, lol. I won't get into too many details of the encounter as it's a YMMV type of thing, but I will say this.... Just setting eyes on this lovely lady will make your cock instantly rock hard, Just locking lips will make you feel electric & like the luckiest guy on the planet, The touch of her silky hair on your thighs when she's in-between your legs will make you quiver, As the suction from her mouth increases on your shaft, your moans will get louder, and you will breathe heavier. And giving it to her doggy style in front of the mirror will likely cause you to explode because it's pure bliss. This girl rocks my socks and just made the whole sesh feel real. With all the stuff going on in my life, Naomi just helped put me at ease, and enjoy the moment. I got 99 problems, but Naomi ain't one! LOL. Seriously tho, if petite, slim, young, funny, real, awesome, beautiful, sexy, girls are your thing, you will love Naomi. I know I did.

I'm totally in the same boat. Completely oblivious to the signs. I'm often out with friends and they will often comment on how "this girl" or "that girl" was checking me out....and I'm always like "Huh? What are you smoking? How did you pick that up?" and they'll always reply like "She was totally playing with her hair the whole time!"..........are you effin' kidding me? Or "Dude...she was totally smiling at you!"......to which I usually reply "uhhhh...yeah.....she was our waitress....she's supposed to smile at us" And I always get "No, no, no it was the WAY she smiled at you!"......How the hell is anyone supposed to pick up on this shit?? I'm totally a lost cause when it comes to reading signals.....unless she pretty much drops to her knees and starts undoing my pants right then and there I'm more or less oblivious to the fact that she's into me lol I still don't quite understand why a lot of women (in my experience anyway) can't come on to men the same way we do. You're into me? Great! TELL me! Men aren't known for being the most intelligent things walking around on this dirtball....you're giving us too much credit if you think we're gonna figure this shit out on our own. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times a lady has actually asked ME out. I'm not an unattractive guy, so I know there's been plenty more who have wanted to. But it seems a lot of women still refuse to make the "first movie". As much as our society and the views of the sexes has changed and progressed....in this one respect it still seems like we're living in the 50's. The man is still the one who seems to be doing all the work in the "courting" process. At least in the majority of my experience. Would it be so much to ask for a woman to give ME a lame and probably offensive pick up line in a bar? Would it be so much for a woman on the bus to shamelessly stare at my ass or at the crotch of my pants? Would it be so much to ask to have obscene comments and gestures thrown my way every time I walk past a hair salon? No....I don't think so! :p 'Kay I'm done ranting now lol

Sophia I believe that anyone who spends any time on this sight will recognize that these ladies are the exception and that 99% of the ladies that advertise on this site are reputable people.

Are we talking about dirty secrets as in something someone else would find gross/disgusting or just something you don't want anyone else finding out? Okay, if it's gross, if I have a scratch or scab, I am notorious for picking at it. And I had a thing for popping zits when I used to get acne. I still do it when I get the ocassional zit. And I never wear underwear! Real Dirty secrets? I'm peading the fifth! I'll never tell!

i agree peter. i have met with this fine lady many times, and from the first time we, i clicked with her in everyway. so easy to talk to and so fun to wrestle with lol.

Fear and ignorance. Patriarchy and misogyny. Take your pick. The control of sex is as old as God telling Adam and Eve what they could or could not do. The truth shall set you free. However, freedom is not free or easy. The first thing you do when trying to control another is to reduce their humanity - call them savage, barbarian, john, whore, bitch, tramp or any slew of other terms. Listen to the language.

Why? I have seen tons of "this is my last post because..." messages on here. We are social beings and posting that last message may have helped him put a period on this lifestyle and move on. He's not speaking to all of us, just trying to reach to the people like him for whom this lifestyle can have negative effects. Plus, what's wrong with "go hug your wife". She is after-all the most important person in some of our lives.

I thought you were referring to age, 65+

The OP's post is a reality check, and after thinking about it overnight, I REALLY appreciate it. It grabs you by the throat, as it should. And its important for anyone in a committed relationship to take to heart. I think many of you, especially the guys, are being really hard on the OP here. Many of you are parsing words and phrases, and I never think that's a good idea as the OP probably didn't put that level of thought into the post when he wrote it, not to mention that there is a lot of emotion in that post. Sure, he's blaming things a bit on cerb ... maybe ... but he seems to be taking responsibility and he looks to be in the middle of sorting all that out when he wrote the note. And I definitely disagree that he shouldn't come back and read the messages ... maybe that's helping him work through this, so I hope he does come back and take a look. I wish him the best.

It is so nice out today,sun is shinning, warmth in the air....ahhhh life is good! Think it will be a day with tunes, memosa, and spring clean my house:)

Well I am glad we were here for you when you needed us....but wow, no need to toss us aside like trash after you are done with us! I hope what ever issues you had dont creep on ya again, causing you to join a site again. This is not a hobby for all, as this is not a profession for all. But it is yours and yours alone to decide, hopefully next time you will quietly go and not try to make us feel sorry that we are the cause of you " falling from grace" in your marriage. Best of luck, I truly wish you a happy and loving marriage.

Regrets. If any of us escapes this mortal coil without one or two (hundred... thousand...) we would be extraordinary people. I truly hope that the OP can salvage what he feels he has damaged. The feeling of helplessness within a marriage is horrible - I was there. I do think, however, that joining a website and using the services advertised are not the root cause of the distress - they are a manifestation of escape. We all come here looking for something. We join because we think that "something" can be found within the confines of this site. Generally, we try to augment the lack of intimacy, the lack of passion, the lack of physical contact within our own lives. We want the excitement that is not present in our everyday lives. I will share something though... hindsight is not always 20/20. Had the OP tried to mend his damaged marriage before joining CERB, he may still have joined after. No one can say definitively whether his attempts would have been successful. To surmise that you would have been able to salvage a relationship in retrospect is like revisionist history - it ignores all of the ancillary issues that may have spun out of control in a different way. It's complicated but looking at the past with rose coloured glasses is as dangerous as looking at the present or the future with those same lenses. just my two cents...

I think I might - a general state of ignorance mostly. Most Canadians think prostitution is illegal, but prostitution is not now, and has never been, illegal in Canada, I think that comes from watching too much American television where it is illegal in most states. The existing prostitution laws in Canada attempt only to control the perceived nuisance of girls hanging around a street corner bothering every passer-by. I once spoke to a girl that had spent two whole years in jail because she propositioned a police officer, of course that was in the US and cruel and unusual punishment as far as I am concerned. Other Canadian laws concentrate on under-age prostitution or forcing someone into this which all should condemn. So the unfortunate reality is that most people I know (who are not in the know) would wrongfully consider it illegal activity (only because they are so poorly informed). Then there are the wives that won't but yet they fear you will, certainly can't get their vote of approval. And finally the religious types, can't get their "public" vote of approval either although you know many of them as they are your clients. The attitudes in many countries in Europe and other parts of the world are very different from North America. Expect attitudes to improve here in the future but ever so slowly. I for one couldn't have more respect, admiration and gratitude for those that choose (by their choice) to be in the "biz". But compared to the "general public" (all informed CERB members excluded of course) I suppose I am the exception.

Hobbying is not for everybody and, for some people, like many pleasure seeking/filling activity, can easily become addictive and devastate lives. A warning about the dangers is not such a bad thing. A crisis is also always a moment of opportunity...

That seems perfectly fair to me. Politely let her know that you've decided to just have the massage, and still leave her something for her time.

partly what you make it and partly how you respond to events that make you. Just like the t-shirt: "Guns don't kill people, I do." "Cerb doesn't make me see women for play, I do." Cerb is a forum. You enter. You participate. You engage. You pay. You repeat. Dear Sir, you did this. Be responsible and pay the price of admission or leave. It really is no more complex than that. Thank you to all who have responded to this thread. ps: my wife loves hearing about my adventures - her voyeur tendencies mean that I always have hot stories to tell with more detail being the best

Just my point of view ,but I don't think he is blaming cerb,just regreting joining because he obviously got to involved,enjoyed it more than he thought he would,and finally realized fooling around on his wife was the wrong thing to do.To some so's that is all they need to leave(finding out the other has been unfaithful),just one affair will do it.I don't feel he was being demeaning just realizing that "this lifestlye" was to big a price to pay for his marriage.For some it's always all or nothing,cerb is not to blame for his over indulgence or his inability to live with both lifestyles only he can take that credit,but none of us should judge because as the old saying goes" we never know what someones life is like until we walk in that persons shoes".Perhaps this fairwell message is his way of dealing with his choices,I say let him have it,lighten up and move on!! Just one other point and it is an unfortunate one but this lifestlye,hobbying or being a provider is always,always ,going to be thought of as anything but normal,that is something we in the" lifestyle" just have to except,it doesn't make it right but as far back as this industry can be tracked and as long as it will last it will always be morally judged and not excepted,as long as there is religion,and government,those of us that paticipate in the business will always be thought of as the peons of society,I wish this would change but I won't hold my breath.

But it technically is innocent and harmless... Just like money and guns. It's the people and what they choose to do with things that bring about "destruction". I think too much of men in general to start believing they don't have any self control or the ability to think of consequences. It would be insulting if I did...

I believe people need to think very carefully about all the possibilities when they open an account here. Both the ladies and the gentlemen. As a lady I run the risk of being discovered as a companion perhaps by people I do not wish to share this with. This is a risk I know exists and I need to be prepared for the outcome and not blame anyone. In the last year I had a gentleman call me and tell me he had contacted an STD and was blaming me or any of the other SP's he had been with in the past year. I found it somewhat amusing just how upset he was, when you enter this lifestyle you run the risk of gettiing caught, getting an STD or many other things you might not have planned for. My point is yes there are a few risks and if something unfortunate happens please do not blame anyone. Stand up and take responsibility as you are the person that thought is was a great idea in the first place. Something for all of us to think about .

Why blame Cerb and/or hobbying for one's own lack of self-restraint? Have some accountability! Posted via Mobile Device

Your quandary is, I am sure, one that most married men on here have struggled with at some point in time. Each has their own reasons for coming, staying, or leaving and, like religion, it has to be dealt with individually, rather than forcing one's own decision onto someone else. Good luck in your life and marriage and I do hope things work out well for you.

If I'm not nervous or no butterflies, call the paramedics...I'm dead or close to it And the butterflies, nervousness, excitement, it's all part of the fun of an encounter, whether meeting a lady for the first time, or seeing a lady you like for a second, third, fourth or more times etc etc etc RG