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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/13/14 in all areas
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5 pointsWell, all things come to an end. I've enjoyed my time here, but lately have been feeling a bit disconnected from the community. In short, things in my life have been moving me away from this place, and for the most part, those are good developments. I have many friends here, and I will miss you all. Some of you know how to contact me, and I'd be glad to hear from you from time to time. I've asked Mod to deactivate my account, so this will be the last you hear from me. All the best my friends.
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5 pointsConservatives and abolitionists are missing the big picture on sex work BY JASON CONGDON | MAY 6, 2014 http://rabble.ca/news/2014/05/conservatives-and-abolitionists-are-missing-big-picture-on-sex-work?utm_content=buffer0e7ea&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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5 pointsTime to enjoy our blog updates once again! http://midnitemassage.tumblr.com/ Come enjoy my erotic mind
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5 pointsFrom a privacy and discretion standpoint, it's also not that simple. for the men, they need to know that the name that comes up on the statement won't raise suspicion and the SP may not be interested in a paper trail. There are many reasons why accepting different forms of payment won't work for some :)
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4 pointsWith Game 7 upon us on Wednesday night and knowing Meg's bad habit of cheering for the Bruins I have had visions of her wearing her Bruins jersey, and nothing but. Of course I wear my Canadiens jersey proudly and between games it is laid out ever so neatly in preparation for the next game. or So a poll. Meg in her jersey or me in mine? Well, so much for creating a poll! That did not work! LOL I do have to apologize here to Meg as well for some unfortunate writing in my guest book. Another distinguished member and I made some rather derogatory comments about her lovely Bruins. We must have been drunk Meg, really. Certainly way deep down if we look into our heart of hearts one would find somewhere a feeling of respect for Boston. Maybe. :) Good luck in Game 7 Meg, but the rallying cry is certainly, "Go Habs Go."
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4 pointsI'm so happy we have a blog thread again. Here's my blog: http://lovely-nathalie.com/blog/ I posted my favourite poem yesterday, and lots of other stuff on previous days haha Nat xox
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4 pointsPSE is definitely something that's different with each provider. I mention I offer is because I offer some services people think are more 'PSE' (such as cim, cof, greek). But I definitely don't model myself after any porn star, I'm just me! I don't roleplay and wouldn't want someone to tell me 'act like that porn star'. But you sure can come over and give me a nice facial ;)
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3 pointsYay! So exciting! It is on my TDL to be writing more frequently ;) http://blog.kerrisussex.com Have a great Tuesday everyone! Xo
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3 pointsCouncil has voted to include a new section for "BEST OF" threads and other "NON ESCORT" related "FUN" threads. This new section is so that the other discussion area's do not get clogged up with these types of threads and so people who are not interested in these can just simply avoid this area. http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=357
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3 pointsCouncil has passed a vote to now allow all blog promotional threads in general discussion area's. If you have a BLOG and wish to promote it in your signature or include it where relevant in a thread or start a new thread discussing a blog you may do so.
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3 pointsThis poem, I have used numerous times it is of course for us to try and live by, I try to do my best each day....to give a smile...have a read, Inspirational Poem "A Smile" by Unknown Author A smile costs nothing, but gives much- It takes but a moment, but the memory of it usually lasts forever. None are so rich that can get along without it- And none are so poor but that can be made rich by it. It enriches those who receive, without making poor those who give- It creates sunshine in the home, Fosters good will in business, And is the best antidote for trouble- And yet it cannot be begged, borrowed, or stolen, for it is of no value Unless it is given away. Some people are too busy to give you a smile- Give them one of yours- For the good Lord knows that no one needs a smile so badly As he or she who has no more smiles left to give.
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3 pointsI used to accept credit cards and the amount of fraud was unbelievable. People showed up with other people's credit cards. Transactions were reversed after the fact. It was awful. I would never do that again. Yuck!!! I have not had any issues with email money transfers which are much safer in my opinion.
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3 pointsClarissa Delight is also experienced with this and she lives in St. John's. Her email is [email protected] ;)
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2 points"Drop the Pistol, Pete." Things were royally fun until a few moments ago. It started over something as silly as a joke over a white man and an old dog. In today's post Jabba world, after the evil Solo and his goons killed the beloved potato like creature, everyone was tense. "Put the pistol down and I'll give you a back rub man!" shouted some guy in the crowd. Cristy's curved her Excaliber over Pete. "I'll have you know that my sword is spongy and full of short cake!" Pete would've listened if he only knew that short cake was like regular cake, except it had the liquor that he hated as an ingredient. As Lady luck would have it, a cat ran in, and it was cute as a button. Both of them loved cats. All was forgotten. "Kiss, kiss, kiss!", yelled out someone watching the whole thing "Oh really mature Angela" - replied Phaedrus sarcastically.
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2 pointsIt is true I do not advertise such services. And while my main objective as an SP is to provide a slow and sensual encounter I am also well versed in BDSM. It is something I offer ESTABLISHED clients from time to time if their curiosity is peaked and desires are ready. In this role, I am strictly Dom and at no point will offer myself as a Sub. I do offer a selection of toys and encourage my clients to provide some of their own for more intimate games. To my established clients who wish to embark on this adventure I offer bondage, spanking & whipping, pegging, gagging, foot & ass worship, golden showers, and hot wax experiences. I am proficient with the use of a whip and Cat-O-Nine-tails as well as strap-on play. Clarissa
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2 pointsI'm looking out at my flower beds and enjoying how clean and tidy they are after all of my weeding and rototilling I did yesterday! So beautiful like an untouched canvas; I can't wait to fill them up with all sorts of beautiful majestic colorful flowers and plants!
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2 pointsNew Holly a familiar face some of you already know, 23 year old, 5'5 feet tall, Long Dirty Blonde Hair, Green Eyes, model looks, 115 pounds, 32C. Experienced MA who loves what she does :smile: Couple & Female Friendly! Recommendations http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?ltr=H&t=85930 More pics http://www.angelstouchmassage.ca/site/hollys-profile/ NEW MA starts this Thursday Brand New 19 year old cutie ....sweet, innocent girl next door look you will not be disappointed! Complimentary Training Duo's with Riley 9-4 Tuesday Salina 9-4 aka "Salinaflower" Sasha 9-3 aka "Sasha-Paradise" Bianca 9-4 aka "Sexy Bianca' Sabrina R 9-4 aka "SabrinaR" Mandy 10-7 aka "CandyMandy" Chasity 1-8 aka "Chasityxox" Chloe 2-9 aka "XChloeX" Kandice 4-11 aka "Sweet Kandice" Holly 2-11 NEW 1st day :smile: April 2-11 Jamie 3:30-11 aka "Jamie-xo" Riley 3:30-11 aka "Riley Parks" Cherry 6-10 aka "Cherry Blossom" After a long productive winter it brings Marc and I great pleasure to ANNOUNCE our new rooms are open! We want to first thank all of our fine clients that took the time to provide us with any feedback that would help us improve our business.....we are passionate about what we do and we take pride and genuinely care about our clients needs as well as our ladies and this shows in the expansion....Existing space (2000 sq ft) & expansion space (1800 sq ft) was done 100 percent LEGAL & ALL approved by the City of Ottawa and full occupancy was granted today! What we have added: *** A new discrete side entrance that you can enter and exit through ***Clients have the choice of 2 entrances and 3 exits from our unit for discretion ***All MA's have been trained how to be as discrete as possible in making sure you don't cross paths with other patrons at the spa! ***Separate massage waiting for privacy as well as utilize this space if you would like to meet the MA's in person for a quick hello to see if that special someone and you share some sexy chemistry! ***3 new rooms in addition to the 4 rooms our spa already had for the fast growing Massage industry in Ottawa and to be able to offer you more selection & variety of MA's for your enjoyment! The NEW Rooms are: ***Spacious with nice comfy couches to cuddle up with your favorite MA ***Professional Massage Tables that are adjustable ***Fresh High Quality Towels ***Industrial/Commercial onsite laundry facilities to ensure fresh linens at all times ***High Quality & Professional Body Wash,Massage Oil & Gel ***Erotic dance pole for all your naughty dances for the MA's that specialize in erotic dancing ***2 4 by 8 wall mirrors for your viewing to see all those oh so sexy bodyslides from every angle ***Adjustable lighting & black lighting to enhance your erotic massage experience *** In-room sinks *** the new showers are more spacious (5 ft) and can comfortably cater to 3-4 people at a time ...excellent for Duo's & Couples Massage :wink: we have custom massage jets that we built right into the shower....the jets are all adjustable for your preference of angles during shower fun....soapy shower fun oh ya! ***We now have specific pricing scales for all MA services our spa offers....no more inconsistent pricing guys! This has been long overdue! This I know will make everyone happy! ***We will be holding a private party meet & greet FOR PREGISTERED Members ONLY at the spa one late Friday evening near the end of May! A perfect opportunity to take a couple of hours for yourself and sneak away to Ottawa's favorite Paradise Getaway retreat :wink: More details coming soon! ***IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK AT ANYTIME PLEASE DO NOT BE SHY AND SEND US A PM! Holly-NEW April Chasity Cherry Chloe
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2 pointsWell I am a giver so I shall give my opinion from my self proclaimed area of expertise on the subject ............ May I suggest starting out with a light oil ....Purrrhaps Pennzoil brand 5w20 Then work your way up to a little bit heavier and maybe pricier oil... Mobil brand 5w30 It's Super ! And to wrap er up .... finish off with the sweet scented, top of the line heavy duty oil .... Valvoline brand fully synthetic 10w30 :) Yeah baby. Slip slide and away !!! It lasts forever it seems !!! ;) That's all I got. Hope this helps :) Bye for now.
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2 pointsI myself turn my phone on vibrate, hold it up to my ear, and have a pleasant conversation with myself as I walk past any hotel employees. The likelihood of anyone interrupting me to ask me questions is extremely remote, especially if I am talking to my imaginary friend on the other end. Just a suggestion that works for me.
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2 pointsThe MA undercover SP should go be an indy escort rather then confusing clients that go to massage establishments. Also, if the owner is turning a blind eye and allowing this illegal activity to occur due to greed, that individual is putting all of their other staff at risk of being charged, not to mention all of their clients and bringing unwanted attention of the entire industry. The laws are in limbo but are still in affect. If the owner isnt aware, then I would suggest sending an anonymous email and giving them the heads up would be highly appreciated I am sure.
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2 pointsI really like this question. I don't have a complete answer. But the main thing: seduction is an activity performed upon the mind of the subject, not the body. Everyone's concept of sexuality sits within a complex web of mental associations -- some of them common, some unique. These associations aren't about how sex is done; it's about what sex means to that person. It's about who they think they are sexually, what they desire, what they think sex promises for them, what they'll admit to and what they won't, what they're eager for and what they're afraid of. Tug on those threads, and you trigger deep responses not just about sex but about identity. Seduction is about pulling gently on those threads, and the better you know the person (or can predict them), the more effective the seduction will be. Ultimately you're creating an intensely sexual state of mind. But it's not just about making sex happen, but about making the subject want that sex to happen, so that they invest themselves fully and deeply in what follows.
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2 pointsI just want to point out quickly that some people are allergic to coconut oil. I don't believe there is a known allergy when it comes to eating it, but contact dermatitis is something that a rare few will experience. If you are thinking about using it, try it out as a lotion for a few days and see how your skin reacts. My skin does NOT handle it well, and because of that I would never want to use it as a lube. I actually have to read beauty product ingredients carefully to make sure there is no coconut oil in anything I put on my skin. So while it is amazing for some people, just give it a trial run before you commit to buying a lot.
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1 pointSo I took one for the team... 24/7 agency? I was assured prior to the appointment by a man on the phone that it would not be a bait and switch situation after I warned him I would leave if it was. Well it was a bait and switch but whats worse is this girl was obviously not in a good place. She tried to make small talk and stuff and it was just really bad. I could tell she was struggling with addiction. She had that emptiness about her. The apartment was filled with smoke. There was weed out on the table. It was a truly Disgusting scene. I turned and left. Makes me sick how people can be exploited this way. 24/7 agency = very bad. Stay away.
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1 pointHeard that Club 77 has finaly been sold and will be closed at the end of this month for renovations
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1 pointWell today was supposed to be the first full day of rain, starting last night. Well not only has not a drop of water fallen...yet, the sun has come out, well I've lost count On the plus side, I prefer the sun to rain, but next time they call for sun, well it'll likely be rain RG :-)
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1 pointGentlemen... My name is Cherry. I've been in the massage industry for 6 months now, I'm loving what I do. I am 20 years young. My hair is long and Blond and my eyes are Bright Blue. I have a dark tan all over my baby soft skin with no tan lines and no tattoos. I eat right and exercise regularly which keeps me very fit and toned and flexible. My boobs are the perfect handful and you wont be able to wait to suck on my perky nipples. My bum is more than a handful and I lovvee to have it touched, massaged, spanked and crested. My Numbers.. *Height: 5"3 *Weight: 105 - 110Ibs *Feet: Size 5 - 6 *Boobs: 34B *Petite My traits.. Very outgoing, playful, sensual, erotic, naughty, classy, caring, educated, respectful, discreet and open minded. Some of the things my sessions can offer... *Showers for two *Reverse massage *Topless massage *Erotic nude massage *100% Natural Oil *Foot fetish *Outfits, Dress up (if pre-requested) *Some Fetish *Role Play/Age Play *Happy Ending I work Paradise Spa, located in the west end The most clean, classy and discreet Spa in Ottawa This week's Scheduled Tuesday, Today 6:00pm - 10:00pm To book your time with me 613-820-8887 I am not An escort and I do not offer escort services xoxoxox
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1 pointmaybe not an ideal solution for everyone, but I have a Mi-Fi device that allows me a wi-fi connection wherever I am. I've had to use it in airports, on trains, on the side of the road, and I use it in hotels who charge for their wi-fi like Westin. It can't compete with free, but at least I can freely browse whatever sites I wish. The internet can't hide from me :D
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1 pointunwind with Sabrina {r}, the best massage by far ! im a curvy, busty 38dd, bootyfull , exotic, French masseuse. I cater to ladies and gents, I have ultimate fun with couples. Im a woman of exquisite professional manners, a gorgeous face and tantalizing green bedroom eyes. I can captivate your mind , I can captivate you body. I am a certified reflexologist and esthetician; my meticulous ways will leave u in a bliss of satisfaction, a turmoil of pleasure and an unforgettable tantrassage of a lifetime. you've tried the rest, now its time to try the best Click the image to open in full size. very open minded, very few limitation. I am available this week between Monday and Friday (9am-4pm) call (613) 820 8887 text (613) 890 2960 bisoux xo Sabrina, rated "r" recommendation: http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175469
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1 pointcurious as well. sent a pic but who know if it's real? always good to hear from the network.
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1 pointYAY!!!! You can read more about my adventures, miscommunications and other fun stuff on my blog: http://www.emilyrushton.com/blog
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1 pointI've a place in Tampa so have been through that lovely airport many times. I've found there to be much less censorship on free wifi networks in the US as opposed to in Canada. That's another reason why I rarely use the free wifi when available. In Canada I stick with my LTE connection as it's much faster than any wifi provided in Tim's, a shopping centre, Starbucks, airport, or most hotels. But, when outside of Canada I'll resort to wifi. If it's free there will be little investment by the provider in setting up something to handle the load. Also, every additional firewall rule to block sites like CERB affects the end to end response on the network significantly. Another thing to consider is wifi hotspots are the last place to go if privacy and security are important factors to you.
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1 pointMeg makes a good point. Also to the best of my knowledge, it may not be so easy for a SP to get a Merchants Account for processing credit cards and Paypal...not to mention the risk that some clients may after the encounter call the cc company and report a stolen card. I also believe Paypal won't knowingly process any Paypal transaction if discovered it is used for adult services. If someone knows otherwise I will stand corrected RG
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1 pointI know I'm preaching to the choir here but I find it depressing when he mentions "the misconception that prostitution is a victimless crime" and talks of rape and robbery. Those are violent crimes. The transaction of prostitution in and of itself has nothing to do with them.
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1 pointAnymore that's what I do. I only see ladies I trust. The only time I don't use email money transfer is if the lady prefers to be paid in cash. For me, it has the benefits of simplicity, no issues with exact change, and no need to travel carrying a large sum of money, nor does the lady have to travel carrying a large sum of money after the encounter RG
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1 pointOkay and....I'm sensing that you're upset. Are you upset because I missed that, or because I started a new thread similar to yours or that I didn't delete mine and go back and bump yours? ... Is there a rule I'm not aware of that any topic that has been previously discussed or posted about before cannot be again? If a thread is similar to an old OLD one it can only be bumped and not started anew? I wasn't aware of the thread as I stated, apologized and you simply ignored my last question and reposted about it being bumped. Why not just post a story and have fun with it-geez!
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1 pointI would have to say that I have been to all of the Ottawa area clubs and I prefer this one for a few reasons. The staff is friendly and excellent. The drinks are not exorbitant prices. Parking and cover is free. But of course the most important in any club is...the girls are amazing. For a smaller club which you must drive a bit towards the outskirts of town for its nice. Champagne room mileage is good and staff has a watchful eye that the ladies are the boss and patrons are respectful of that. It's a relaxed atmosphere where you can enjoy music, the game or chat with the ladies and actually hear what they are saying to you. The past few weeks there have been the regular 6 or 8 ladies such as "Skyla" (blond-blue eyed tight body), "Jade" (black girl, dark eyes, 36dish breasts-natural long hair), "Sasha"(black, 38dd naturals, french girl), "bunny" (light brown hair, light coloured skin, librarian look). Sprinkled in with a few ladies that are newer but quite a few have said they want to stay in the area because they love the atmosphere there and the way the customers treat them well. This club is quickly becoming an up-and-comer with new promotions and drawing lots of new fresh talent. I saw a new shooter girl a few weeks ago and she is hot (thin indian girl with a sweet face). I like this place the people and hope they continue to draw crowds. Guys don't be shy the more of us who show up the better quality girls that show up and you'll have a great time! Hope to see you all there!
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1 pointHey Cleo, keep your chin up. I am also doing the french Rosetta course to improve my skill. I was quite surprised how it's laid out, still trying to figure it out. It's definitely going to take quite a bit of time.
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1 pointI had my first session with Raquel yesterday and wow... :icon_biggrin: she has created a regular...
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1 pointWithout casting blame on anyone, the smaller the hotel, the more likely you will be questioned as to where you are going. For example a small boutique hotel with 10-20 rooms would not be a good place to host out of as the staff would pretty much recognize everyone who's staying there. Yes, we are allowed visitors, but since we are not likely to want to give the client our real name, that wouldn't work either. And even if we did, multiple guests a day might raise some red flags for management. Discretion is key. Always best to stay in a larger hotel where it's more common that people are coming and going all the time. Just saying...
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1 pointI agree with Scribbles completely!! I have seen many pictures of girls, and then when I see them in person they don't look any thing like their photo's... Most of us girls get our pictures professionally done, and the photographer and the lady both focus on the best attributes; which is completely understandable but it can be a bit of a let down when the client comes in expecting what he saw in the pictures and the lady looks nothing like that.... That's why I always try to make sure that my pictures are a true glimpse of what I look like, I have small boobs but Im not afraid to show that in my pictures; that way no one is surprised when they come in to see me and see that my boobs are smaller...
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1 pointGood to see they aren't wasting time by waiting for silly things like TRIALS or convictions eh? Some poor schmuck is going to get his picture up there despite being completely innocent, and it may ruin his life. Law enforcement in the US is completely nuts. Suspect=guilty. Marekin Justis Yay!
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1 pointIt's silly, but sometimes when I'm reading about the business and the experiences of hobbiests, this song keeps popping into my head. Never thought I'd be quoting Julio Iglesias and Willie Nelson. I'm starting to live up to my username now....crap. :p
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1 pointI think I've had all the stuff out there used on me and my preference is a good quality Massage Oil like Biotone. The stuff is about $13 for 8 oz or $54 a gallon and is available locally. Their lotion is also good. A number of MAs use baby oil and I hate it !! Some even use the scented stuff which smells like hell for the rest of the day! Although the unscented stuff doesn't smell, you still can't get rid of it unless you have 2 showers. I also get a rash from baby oil for some reason !! If you figure out the price of a gallon of baby oil you may find that good massage oil, or lotion if you prefer, is probably around the same price !! The massage oil is very slippery and is water soluble so cleanup is a breeze. It just plain gives a better massage. I don't mind unscented baby oil for the finish if that's what the MA prefers but not for the massage. If I visit an MA that I enjoy and she uses baby oil I will bring a bottle of Biotone on my second visit. Some switch and others just save the bottle of massage oil for my future visits :) My 2 cents, from a customer's perspective.
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1 pointSome municipalities are defining the word "Escort" improperly here in Canada! In municipal by-law's some cities here in Canada have defined the word "Escort" as a person who goes on paid dates but does not participate in sexual acts with clients in exchange for money. They do this as they want to license escorts but they do not want to accept that the escorts are having sex for the money (that would make them pimps and pimping or "living off the avails" is illegal in Canada). We all know that the term "Escort" is a person who is a "Sexual service provider" also known as such things as a "Call girl", "Courtesan", "Prostitute", "hooker", "Whore", "Harlot", and many other names. Many of the names are demeaning and not respectful as we all know so the ladies choose to use better words such as "Escort" so that they are not grouped in with the women who solicit sex illegally on the street (Also illegal in Canada). In Canada being paid for sex is legal and paying for sex is also legal. What is not legal is pimping, underage of 18, public solicitation / communicating / procuring for the purpose of sex and keeping a bawdy-house. Your common "out-call" service provider who does not solicit in public, does not have a pimp, is of legal age and charges for sex is not breaking the law! So why can they not call themselves a "Escort" in some municipalities? Because the municipality writes these by-laws defining the word "Escort" to mean something that it is not! Most municipalities do this to try to get rid of the ladies. Many of you think they do this because they want to make money off the girls... but that is not true! They don't want the girls in the cities at all. They want to force them to move to another city or quit being a prostitute all together. They use any revenue made from the licenses to further police (and I say police but remember they are not real police they are paid city officials that are actually by-law enforcement and can not charge anyone with a criminal code charge - as much as some will try to make you believe they have this power) Some cities are going to even greater lengths by asking the local police to accompany the by-law officers and try to entrap a few ladies into public solicitation (so that they can stir some fear in the ladies). Yes, they are actually doing this! You can read a thread here on cerb where one lady was tricked into going for a drink at the bar in the lobby of the hotel where she met her date... the date tried to talk to her about sex acts and next thing you know she was being arrested. Yes this is entrapment and she did know better... but I guess she felt the conversation was private enough and he was a good actor (she paid the price) but this is low! She did not want to go to the bar to have a drink with this person and he pretty much demanded it just so he could trick her and charge her. Nice eh! Makes me sick too! A note to the municipalities, We know many by-law guys and probably city officials read sites like this. You should as this should be a big fear for you. Bulling people is fun until all the people you bully get together and form a community and rise up against you! The definition of a ESCORT is "a person who provides a SEXUAL SERVICE to a customer and exchanges SEX for MONEY" - For your information... this is LEGAL in Canada! Just because you make a by-law that redefines the word "ESCORT" to suit your needs it will not hold up in court! You can not pass a by-law based on your MORAL REASONS and you can not charge a ESCORT a LICENSE FEE knowing that they have sex for money as this makes your city a PIMP and you are in turn LIVING OFF THE AVAILS OF PROSTITUTION and you are breaking the law!! With the INTERNET and communities like this one here on CERB the ladies are starting to UNITE and work together! Activist groups are now challenging the laws in court that take rights away from sex trade workers - don't think that this will not trickle down to the municipalities who are also taking away legal rights of people! It will not be long till you bully the ladies enough in your city that they unite and challenge your moral based by-law in court. It will end up costing your city a fair amount of money and one nasty slap on the hand to tell you that you can not take rights away from people who are not breaking the law (just because you don't like what they do for a living!) You should take the advise of your town lawyers who have probably told you that passing a by-law like this can backfire, it's only a matter of time before the ladies unite against you (any many men support them - every day more are supporting the ladies publicly as well as it's not so taboo any more to employee the services of a sex trade worker. It is the oldest profession as you know! Keep in mind that with todays technology (the internet) it's much easier to communicate and form communities (Like this one) you and other cities could bully the ladies in the past (knowing they would not group together) but you are very wrong if you think that will continue in this day and age... it simply will not hold true! Bottom line... No matter what you do you will not get rid of prostitution in your city - Too much need and demand for it - let's face it... if no demand existed you would not have such a large number of ladies working in the profession now would you!?!
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1 pointHowever I'm sure the label on some profiles will make some new members wonder why some are "valued members" and some aren't. It's my belief anyway that all members should be considered valued:)
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1 pointFor me its not just the shape, its how it looks from behind. My vote is for CAT.
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