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Here is how I see it: If I go and see a massage therapist, I will not negotiate their rate. If I go and see a psychologist, I will not negotiate their rate. We are in the "human" services, that can be considered both as a luxury and as a necessity, as much as the previous professions mentioned are. If my service is to offer you all in one appointment: my time, my educated and sensitive personality, my ability to listen to you, my intelligence to know when to speak and when not to, my delicate touch and much more than that, which is precious, then if you still need to negotiate, you need to re-think about what an escort and their services mean to you.

So I am 31 years old, newly married and my wife is suffering from long term mental illness. She has always struggled with depression and anxiety but things have really taken a turn for the worst over the last 12 months. She currently on stress leave from work and is seeing a doctor and a psychologist. It all seems to help a bit but no silver bullets yet and things remain hard. Basically living with this is what pushed me to start seeing escorts and massage providers. For the last 12 months everything has fallen on me, cooking, cleaning, caring for the pets, taking her to all her appointments and handling all the money issues that arise from going down to one income. This was all combined with the need to always be the positive one and never, ever show if I am sad or mad about something. Seeing escorts is a break. For an hour every month my life didn't have to be about caring for someone else, it could be about me. I really think that this release was the only way that I stayed sane. Take tonight, we are booking tickets to go stay with some family we have somewhere warm. This is a luxury for us because, as I mentioned, the wife is not working right now. Instead of being happy that we are going to get away somewhere warm, she is depressed and teary that we can't afford to go businesses class. I have no idea how do deal with this. I am doing the best I can not to show anger as it will send her into a depressive episode that could last days. So instead I fake positivity and try to distract her with tea and pet talk. Hopefully her mood improves before we go. Anyway I started this thread because I felt it might help to write about stuff as it happens. I am going to keep adding to it as I feel the need.

I second that! I would like to thank the people who offer new perspectives and voices outside of the 'normal'. Although sometimes people are quick to tell you how wrong you are for thinking the way do, there are people here who value and appreciate these opposing views. It's a good way to have a discussion or debate. Besides, if everyone agreed on everything, we wouldn't have anything interesting to talk about or learn from.

The start of my b-day weekend celebrations start tonight with a road trip and lots of champagne....

Some things that may be of help for both of you. If you can, talk to her doctor's. Some medication only works for a short time for some people. Maybe she needs a medication change. Some times multiple medications are required. Exercise is very important for many medications to be most effective. If you are in the Ottawa area, see if the doctor's can get her a referral to the Royal Ottawa Mental Healthcare Hospital. They have some great in and out patient programs and services. This is covered by OHIP if you do not have private insurance. They even have support services for you. CBT or Cognitive Behavior Therapy can be a big help, but it takes lots of work on her part. Believe it or not, getting out of the house for daily walks together would be a big lift to her mood. http://www.theroyal.ca/ I have suffered from depression and other mental health issues for most of my life. I have been on dozens of different medications before they finally found me a good fit.

I know exactly what you mean and it is 100% true that there are people like that.

Denying or lying about your feelings is only a temporary fix, and, as you've said, is causing you additional stress. Would you consider a couple's therapy session, with the aim to help both of you communicate more effectively? It can be exhausting to be the sole support, whether that is physically, emotionally, and/or financially, whether the causes are physical or mental illness. It's okay to have these feelings. It's okay to take care of yourself. There is support out there for both you as a family member, and your wife. In Ottawa we have the Psychiatric Survivors of Ottawa, which is peer-led and offers supports to both individuals experiencing mental health issues and their family members (WRAP programs and peer support). They also have quite a number of links to supports like the Mood Disorders Support and CMHA. As Jafo has said, there is also the Royal Ottawa, which can be an excellent resource, but usually does have a long waiting list for referrals. If that is something you might be interested, it is always easier to get on the waiting list and change your mind or not need it later, than to try and get that support when you or your wife is in crisis. There is also the Mental Health Crisis Line (613-722-6941) and the Distress Centre Line (613-238-3311). Good luck :)

Good afternoon, Thank you for such a great time back in Saint John, the 186cms of snow was a lovely welcoming touch. I am looking forward to being back in my favourite city soon. xoxo Emily

I have had a lot of good news lately and I just want to say that I am very grateful. Being grateful is the highlight of any day but I am extremely appreciative at the moment.

I'm not an SP, but a gentleman and a real gentleman would never try to negotiate a lower rate! Show them the door and kick them in the a$$ on the way out :)

Boomer01, your opinion is in the minority. To continue saying it's been happening since the beginning or it will never stop, think about it this way. There was a time in history that women could not charge their husbands with rape. If she went to the police, she was told she is the property of her husband and therefore, he could do as he pleased. The argument then was it's been this way since the dawn of time and will not change. Women were not allowed to vote. Women were not allowed to have a bank account without her husband's permission. If we allowed the feeling that it's always been this way and will never change, we would still allow this. It was when women united and said no more, the laws changed. On lyla, we DO NOT have to post no negotiation on our ads or profile. Only if we want to allow negotiations and post it on our ads or profile, is when you can approach the lady with an offer. However, my experience, is they typically are new or desperate. If you feel it is your right to negotiate, that is your opinion. However to suggest to other hobbyists that this is ok, is doing them a disservice, as they might not realize they will quickly get on the do not book list without realizing the repercussions of their "it can't hurt to ask". It always hurts the lady. Most experienced ladies have endless contacts titled "negotiator, low baller and haggler". Once I identify someone in this category, I will never answer their text, phone call or email. Even if they see the error of their ways, they've missed the opportunity to ever see me. The sticky on this indicated 97% of this community is against this practice.

Wow! I truly didn't think I'd get such a great response like this. So I'm not alone when I feel bartering my rates is so wrong! I do specials, that's when you men should take advantage if you cannot afford regular rates.. I'm not in the business of negotiations. To me it's insulting when someone asks " what can I get for 80$, 100$ ?" Nothing! And don't ever contact me again, is always my reply..

IF YOU CAN NOT GET THIS MESSAGE TO GO AWAY AFTER READING PLEASE READ THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST. ****************************************** PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO CIRCUMVENT THE CENSORED WORDS! ****************************************** I am sure by now many of you have noticed a number of words have been added to the censor list. I know it makes the site very hard to read but instead of jumping ship and moving to another country like other adult boards are doing we have decided to instead conform to the new laws. This means 1) No one can ADVERTISE that they offer prostitution related EXTRAS if you offer this off the site that is find as long as you do not LINK to a site offering such things or offer them here. To conform to the new laws we can not to allow you to ADVERTISE such things here on cerb or advertise a website or blog or ad somewhere else that offers such things. If we find you are linking to a website from cerb that offers such things we will need to BAN your site from linking from cerb. Since people will ignore the law and try to post ads offering such things on cerb we had had to add certain keywords to the censor to ensure no one posts ILLEGAL things. Unfortunately this takes away from the discussion area. Now it is NOT illegal to discuss prostitution or related ACTS but I am not sure how the law will see it if someone is posting that they are a ESCORT (Not offering any PROSTITUTION related extras) and some guy posts saying "Oh, She did such and such with me!" (Guys like to brag when they get something extra that was not advertised....) 2) People may start to try to CIRCUMVENT these words. This will get you SUSPENDED or BANNED as you could put the website in jeopardy. Anyone seeing anyone trying to be creative (offering to do stuff like "squeeze the juice from a hot dog", "Suc the icing off a rooster" or "go in and out of grease for extended vacation" .... you get the point! Please REPORT THIS and DO NOT QUOTE IT! If you reply to it with a quote and do not report it you may also get a warning. 3) Some words are standard words such as O U T C A L L and S E R V I C E and these had to be censored as well as they could be taken the WRONG way and we are being EXTRA VIGILANT at this time to ensure cerb stays within the boundaries of this new law. 4) Use your .... people, don't brag about extra things that may or may not have happened when in private with someone. Just share that you have a nice time, you will see her again and focus on the nice things. More to come but I am asking for help with CENSOR words as well. Please report any ADVERTISEMENT posts that HINT or BLATANTLY SAY they offer PROSTITUTION RELATED EXTRAS so we can ADD to the CENSORS and protect the site. IF YOU CAN NOT MAKE THIS MESSAGE GO AWAY.... Your browser settings are probably not accepting cookies. Switch to another web browser or change your settings and see if it helps. A INCOGNITO browser will probably also cause this issue as well.

I'm very much into dating Asian women and I'm looking for one that enjoys trips to Greece, please pm any recommendations that you may have.

Just a feel good thread where we can thank all the ladies and gentlemen for everything they do. I will make this very general to start and thank the few ladies that I have met for a wonderful experience and hope to meet many more in the future and find my one most important ATF/regular. I would like to thank the board for keeping this a fun, enlightening and entertaining place for all of us to enjoy. And mostly I would like to thank the few that are there for me on an almost daily basis. (You know who you are) Thank you for going above and beyond and I wouldn't be who I am now without you. Thank You Ladies! And Thank You Everyone.

Just checked into the new Delta in Toronto, great view with a corner on the 39th floor. Anyway off to the International Auto Show for the next few days to see all that is shiny and new in the world of cars.

SweetEmilyJ.wordpress.com

Of course I would offer you a towel, Dear Ice4fun! I confess that this post made me smile and dream... Additional Comments: Awwww... Thank you AquaTouch. I confess that it would certainly be a great pleasure to meet you. Maybe you will tell me funny stories, like the mouse one that was so cute and well written ;-)

Lingerie for my upcoming photo shoot.....

Nothing in life is free.... living your life is expensive... having relationships is expensive it: real does not matter if that is in a traditional marriage... living together... friends with benefits... poly arrangement or seeing people in this hobby. For me personally I don't see the benefit of comparing the various arrangement... all that really should matter is are you doing what is right for you and makes you happy... if you are then you have found what is right for you. I'm not sure one choice is more "honest" than another except in you own personal situation. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

I agree conquistador that Jon Oliver would be a fine choice, but I doubt he'd leave his HBO show for it. I'm a regular Daily Show viewer and I was quite saddened to hear he'd be leaving as well, though I can understand him wanting to move on after 17 years of it. It's just sad in a way that one had to turn to a satirical comedy show for some of the most insightful interviews, thoughtful commentaries, and fair analysis around. I always respected his interview style. Not only did he know his material, but (again, unlike "real" news shows) it wasn't about who could yell louder or spout off talking points the best. Even when he clearly disagreed with someone he would give them time to have their say and his arguments were logic based rather than noise based (not to say I always agreed with Stewart on his views, but I can at least respect that he thought them through and wasn't just parroting a party line). Hopefully whoever succeeds him will be up to continuing the task.

No worries with Felina shes a well established lady with a stellar reputation!

There are extensive threads on both of them, just a quick read should give you the details you need to know. As for paranoid, we all should be a little but Southpointe and Felina are well known and well reviewed and will provide a much safer experience then going to a new and unreviewed person

none lol, both pairs and long johns in the wash lol time to buy some more

The movie is called Rose Water [ATTACH]300[/ATTACH] Iranian-Canadian journalist Maziar Bahari is detained by Iranian forces who brutally interrogate him under suspicion that he is a spy. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2752688/ I have not seen it but am looking forward to seeing it. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Now Mia I have to confess that I would love to be the person causing you to squirt.... you would give me a towel to dry my face after... right??? :p Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Haha.. Yes. Sorry I was just typing random thoughts that popped into my head. I realize now that no one else besides me knows they are completely unrelated thoughts. I do not think that he left because of lower ratings... or because I personally stopped watching... or to make the shares worth buying. I would love to see his movie though. This is the first I've heard of it.

selection in Ottawa is wild! Not that long ago I got excited about going to TO or Vegas but now I have a list of people I want to spend time with in Ottawa. Izzy

There's way too many gorgeous girls now in Ottawa. The Spa's have so many girls now. And new ones appearing on a weekly basis. The bill doesn't seem to be keeping the women from entering the business. But the competition means the same number of dollars spread among more women. Business is slow for some, but maybe it's because it's just spread around to more women?

I confess I like it when a lady squirts Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Chocolate. Just went out for some Ritter Sport dark chocolate with marzipan. Love it!

The problem with grouping people weither it's by age or by sex or by geographic location is that it usually applies that the group, whatever it is, is one homogeneous group with all the same traits and of course we know that's just not true. Now is we say more youthful ladies have less experience then that might generally be true but it would certainly not be hard to find lots that were very experienced and conversely older ladies who had less experience... for me there is no right or wrong to the question " Older or younger" it is really a question of one's individual taste. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Ok let's think this negotiation thing through.... if we accept the fact that negotiation is a fact of life and will not go away then it would be reasonable for ladies to factor that into their business model... So if a lady calculates that based on the services she provides and the volume of clients she is willing to see and taking into account her business expenses that she needs $300 an hour to be successful then I guess when she factors in wiggle room for negotiation she should advertise $350. If she does she can "play the game" and give the guy that feeling of "winning " by getting a better price. End result the guy pays $300 like he would have if no negotiation was factored in. Of course the lady could also just leave her rate at $300 and let that smart, bargaining client beat her down to $250 and then just adjust her services so that more things have an extra charge... suddenly the $250 bargain becomes a $350 gain. In my opinion the bottom line is that bargaining is disrespectful at best and at worst is a decision by a client to take advantage of a lady who because of a challenging market, lack of confidence or financial problems is left with no choice but to give in or not have the necessities of life. I also strongly feel that it is in all clients best interest to not bargain as bargaining does not in the long run create favorable market conditions. If you think the rate is too high move on. The ladies in this industry are certainly smart enough to consider the market they are working in, the services they are provide and their own financial needs... if they price themselves out of the market then this will in the long run be self correcting. As for sales or discounts... if that price is available all the time through bargaining than in fact it is not really a sale price. There are a thousand reasons why a lady might offer a sale price and all valid business reasons it does not mean that because she does she has to sell at that price every day. In regards to people thinking their opinion is right and strongly disagreeing with others...yeah of course... if i have considered an issue and come to an opinion on it I would think I would think it was right... that does not mean others should not also express their opinions in fact I encourage them to do so it enhances the debate and educates us all. I may strongly feel your opinion is wrong but I have no problem at all with reading it Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Remember this ....?? " if all you have to spend in the whole world is 80, then perhaps you should go to the grocery store" lol.... Like Nicolette says, and others...this is a luxury. Either save up or just move on to one who does provide that rate.

For February 11, 12 & 13th ONLY!! Being a Lyla member gives you perks! To celebrate our lovely community I am offering a discounted rate for my hour of entertainment and for my 90 min Hot Spa sessions. One hour of fine entertainment including a massage, in a safe and secure location. I am Always well dressed and fresh for our time together! Special rate is 30.00 of regular rates:) The 90 min Hot Spa session, allows us time to have flirty and fun chats, perhaps enjoy a beverage hot or cold. Relax with a deep penetrating hot stone massage and Swedish touch massage. Then join me in my lounge room for entertainment. Special rate for this package is 30.00 off the regular rate. To receive your special rate, please send a PM first so that I can verify your a Lyla member. Book in the next 3 days, please do not ask if I can give you the same offer after these dates!? Please view my site, enjoy Hot New Beach Video! http://www.ladysophiaclassic.com/

Kat, aka Alleykat, advertises mainly on CL under headings like "Sweet diversion", "Deliteful massage", etc. Some of her ads (but not all) contain a link to Alleykat's website which reveals her to be a transsexual (post-op, I believe). Not my cup of tea, but there's definitely a market for transsexual escorts/masseuses.

I hope you don't mind me saying, it's very brave of you to admit this and to share. I wouldn't be to hard on yourself though, we all grieve differently and handle someone we care for dying differently. No one should judge and none of us will know how we will handle death when it comes for us until it happens. What matters is you cared. Hugs

Thanks... I might just luck into a business trip to Ottawa that week should know for sure tomorrow. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Although I do still go to my MD for obvious reasons, I now rely on a naturopath for any curatives. Doctors base their results on general levels, ex-my iron was low, by my DR's standards it was in normal range, my naturopath found it to be significantly low, placed me on supplements and recommended I modify my diet. This helped me a lot. Also ones moods can affect ones drive, depression in itself can kill your sexual drive. If you don't mind me saying you are far from old, in your prime actually-(40's) but the way you talk sometimes one might think you were beyond your senior years, lol. Best of luck and smile, you have a lot going for you;)

Mrredhell, I just read your post and laughed so much! Aren't you pretentious a bit ;-)

Although in person we never met, I've seen and heard it all.... the humour, laughter, snide remarks, he never seemed to fail.... to see the funny side of life, even in the darkest hours of his life. A man who saw life for what it was, a joy to be taken by the short and curly's and taken for a ride. Tom was one of the first people to welcome me on this board. I have followed almost all of his postings, and his quick-witted banter in answers to some postings. Most of it made me laugh. But when I got to the postings where he describes his illness, it made me really sad. The fact that this man has a sense of humor, and a sex drive to the nth degree to the very end........makes me severely happy :-) I can just imagine him, looking around the room for camel toe, and for anyone that is willing to give him a show. Good man, Tom ;-) He graced us with his presence on this board. Gave advice where it was needed, and a telling off where it was definitely needed. His battle with this terrible infliction he faced head on, and didn't let it stop him from being who he is. An amazingly strong person. No one should stop living their life the way they want to lead it, just because of an infliction. Albeit this infliction has an end that is not favorable, Tom let us into that very personal side of his life. For that, I am grateful to him to have been privileged enough to be a part of it. Tom, you made my year on this board immensely satisfying. Your welcoming words were greeted with happiness. I smile and laugh at your wit, and can see that you are a good and decent person. Carry that on to the next life, I, for one, want to meet you on the other side ;-) I cannot say that I am looking forward to your last posting, as it means that you are gone. When that fateful time does come, I will raise my glass of rare single malt scotch to your memory, shed a tear or two with friends, and think fondly of your kind words to me. Be peaceful my friend, bless you for everything that you gave me here.

I would say i would be happy to negotiate with someone who actually understands what negotiation is: it means you offer me a lower rate and I offer you less time/services. All too often the haggler is only interested in getting a lower rate, and offers absolutely nothing in exchange to get a lower rate. Some do not have a 45 minute rate, I do, however if I did not and someone thought the hour rate too high, then a proper negotiation would be to ask me can i do 45 minutes at a rate lower than the hour, and more than the half hour. Of course, why not, you are attempting to actually compromise and come up with a solution agreeable to both of us. however if i have found the majority of hagglers want to get the hour session at the half hour rate, and make sure that not only do they get what is normally offered, but additional services as well. The first thing I think of when someone is about to offer me less than what I quote, is that he will be one of those. If you want to negotiate go ahead, but keep in mind that negotiators and hagglers are never considered good clients, or valued regulars. If you do not mind being on their short list of people they would automatically choose not to see if anyone else contacts them in the meantime, then go ahead and dicker down the rate. If you think you are going to be welcome for repeat visits at the haggled down rate, you will be sadly mistaken Expect to be shuffled out the door without a end of session shower. Expect to see yourself going in for the hour, but door to door you are at 45 mnutes. Expect that, because that is actually what you paid her for, a lower rate = 45 minutes of her time. or 20 minutes if paying a reduced rate on a half hour session. escorts have ways of making sure you get what you pay for, one way or the other. Be wary of the ones who agree to a lower rate, it is extremely likely they are agreeing because the main thing some want from a haggler is to separate him from his money for his disrespect. if he feels shortchanged by the experience, that is entirely on him. Hopefully he will have learned his lesson by his own mistakes.

I'm not sure I have much new to add and I haven't posted in a while, but in discussions like this I think it's worth adding one's opinion as support if nothing else. One can hope that if enough people voice the same opinion then others may be less inclined to a certain behaviour. So let me say that no, this is not a relationship where negotiating is either polite or productive. The most you can accomplish for the sake of a couple bucks is many ladies losing their opinion of you, wasting some people's time, and even if one does successfully badger...sorry, negotiate, a ladies' rates down then chances are you've also reduced the quality of the time you'll spend with each other. Would you really want to be with someone who basically told you they don't think your time is worth what you say it is? There's are certainly reasons men negotiate, and it can be interesting to discuss those (and perhaps this post is a sidetrack since the OP was asking about "why" and not whether it's OK). But it's important to keep in mind that just because there's reasons people behave a certain way doesn't make it right.

Some guys may negotiate but I think it's pretty much frowned upon in the community as a whole A lady choosing to lower her rates is not the same as a guy dickering her price down. And many ladies do clearly state no negotiating on their websites. And just my opinion, but negotiating in this lifestyle must be demeaning to a lady. In what other businesses is the person the business and the person is intimate with her client? Negotiating, well haggling, must make the lady feel cheapened Here are just a few threads on the topic http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125152&highlight=negotiating and http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=141558&highlight=negotiating Anyhow, a quick morning rambling from a non negotiator RG

I see what you are getting at but you can't compare the two. All inclusive can be subjective and different. I don't think ladies change their meaning of this when times get tough, yes it'll differ from person to person but not because of the economy.

The mods do a great job of keeping this place peacefull. But it wouldnt be here without all these beautiful women!! Thanks ladies.

Definitely is. This site is really awesome in the sense that it is like a closed knit community where we are all friends...for the most part. Lol

This is a very refreshing site when compared to so many of the other sites... lol... be we do have our moments. We certainly should be thankful for a great place like this to connect. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

I haven't seen her as Abby yet. But I'd recognize that cute face and beautiful breasts anywhere! I do believe she used to be known as "Sonia"at Paradise. I've seen her many times when she was there. Sexy, fun, smart and VERY sensual. It was truly hard to behave when being massaged by her. Hopefully she will have an in all location so I may visit her again.

She is fantastic, really fun and funny