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I am confused by this because you said in your original post: So when I wake up with my morning coffee, log into to read the General Discussion area and see thread titles of "Daty vs Digits." "Greek or no Greek", etc. It really makes me question things here and a few have almost made me spit of my coffee on a few occasions. Could it be when you actually read the post (not just the title), you realized it wasn't offensive to you at all. Sometimes there is just no other way to call something other than what it is. Period. And as service providers (in your case MA), we need not be so squeamish about words..or the reason why we are here. Let's get real folks. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, it's not just about dinner dates, relaxing massage and cuddling - we are in the business of selling sex, period! And this is an escort review board, and the tamest, most respectful one you will find probably find on the planet. I worked in the corporate world, in offices for over 25 years and can tell you disrespect comes in many forms and I have experienced less of it here on CERB than I ever did working with rude women and men who I had to face day in and day out. Now days, if I don't like the cut of someone's jib, I don't have to see them or read or respond to their posts!! Erin, I appreciate the point you were trying to get across, but take it from someone who has been in the business since the mid 90s, at the end of the day, I think we have a pretty good community here. And I would say the majority of the members on this board behave quite respectfully. The other minority few, bear no mind to. Oh, and one more thing that is pretty obvious: you can't legislate common sense or manners no matter how right you may be

I have basically gone through this whole post, and it is really easy to touch on some subjects that are sensitive. My personal experience on this board is that it is mostly about sexual content and allows a fair amount of freedom of thought and expression. We use this alot to express ourselves and how we feel and think. For the most part the language is reasonable, but there is a lot of slang terms used, but those terms are often using in a sexual content, one that many of us would use the term "dirty talk", as part of sexual play. I have not seen this used very often to insult or degrade or objectify individuals and I would think that most people on this board would be very tolerant of that, especially with the kind of board it is. I am surprised that there is so much offense to the language, and I am sure even those raising the strongest objections have been guilty themselves from time to time. Of all the places I thought there would be some latitude provided, it was here. I have no problem with the language used, I don't think I use it much myself, but do from time to time, but I think it goes with this type of board. If it isn't what you find acceptable or at least tolerate it, I wonder if this is the right board for you.

One of the best things I've seen written on this site in a while. Couldn't possibly agree with this more. Words are funny things. Sometimes, it bugs me to read guys talk about women's vaginas as 'dripping wet pussies' or the like. Other times, I use the word pussy myself in my ads. As the gentlemen I quoted above said, as long as the person writing it wasn't intending to be disrespectful, I think we should leave it at that. We're all different. I responded to the 'daty vs digits' thread, because I have no issue sharing that information. I can completely understand that not all women feel the same way - but I don't see why we need to chastise the questioner for asking those things. THere have been threads, and responses to threads, that I've read on here that have been completely vulgar and inappropriate, I think to most people who read them. But the one thing I really love about the cerb gentlemen is that i've found they're usually the first ones to call out the offender and tell that person why what they said is wrong. And that makes me happy to be here.

What evidence, exactly, are you basing your argument that decrim will worsen conditions for sex workers? Also, I'm sick and tired of hearing about how decrim will increase the exploitation of women. Women have been being exploited since the beginning of time: we don't get paid for ALL the labour we do around the house: cooking, cleaning, raising children etc, we get paid 70 percent of what men get paid as a whole, women are being legally trafficked into canada under what is known as the 'nanny program' in which basically their life and legal status is dependant on their canadian master, migrant workers are farming all over rural ontario for the rest of us to eat, and then treated like trash and not paid well and then deported when we no longer need their labour. The list goes on and on. And before you go accusing me of being an angry feminist, you can look up all of what i have just said and find that they are not just my opinion of things, but all of this is indeed factual. If people actually cared about the exploitation of women, they'd be working to ensure that all of what i just mentioned above and more wasn't happening. For those who are against prostitution (which they claim to be the same as trafficking), they don't actually care about all of what i have just listed. What they care about is the sex part...

I have been noticing alot of negativity and frustration on this board lately, and as such and haven't really been participating as much. However, I wanted to put something positive out there for all the wonderful gentlemen who treat me like the Indian Princess I am!!! As some of you may know, I moved up here from the Windsor/Detroit area, due to the economic downturn when the Big 3 closed. Since arrivng in Ottawa, I have to say the difference is night and day as far as the clientele. The vast majority of you are nothing but gems to me, which was a refreshing change from the cash strapped, stressed out, and rude people from home. That, and being in school, is what has kept me here in Ottawa. Sure, I do put up with the occasional headache, but that's just life. I for one, especially coming from a place in an economic depression, am thankful for your guys company and welcoming attitude:). Thank you Ottawa for giving me a new home, a place where I feel myself and my services are greatly appreciated and the success to achieve my goals in life. I dedicate this song to all of you!!!

Alexandra - first off, being called an angry feminist is not an insult... If I was a woman, i'd be an angry feminist too. As you so aptly point out, in many areas of life, women are not treated equally. Decrim, for me, would be major step in the right direction. As a man, I am allowed to sell my body - to lift, lug, carry, show up.... Sex should be no different. Consenting adults should be able to identify their marketable assets and charge for them. If I was a good looking man with a hot body I'd be a male escort in a heartbeat. And I believe that political views as worthless, if not expressed and exercised. Not a criticism to SA as he made it clear he would express in other ways. But I do think that those who chose to stay home and bury their heads in the sand get the society they deserve... Or secretly want. Sigh - ok. Time to stop. I'm gonna make enemies and there's been enough drama on this board this week... :-)

I don't quite get it. So this is about vulgarity in the usage of words on cerb? Granted, some of the terminology isn't great, but who cares? We're adults here and if you dislike a thread title, do not click on it, do not read the posts within and certainly do not partake in the discussion. This place is about freedom. Freedom of expression (mostly) and sexual freedom. We're all here because we want to be. No one is forcing us. But keep in mind what type of board this is. It is a board to freely discuss anything and everything to do with sex, which is why we're all here! I prefer to keep things classy, and I don't use raunchy terminology or expressions, because it doesn't accurately reflect my personality. I'm confident that comes through by my not answering to certain threads. That's all I do. I don't waste precious energy getting all riled up about what someone across the country decided to start a thread on. It's fine that you find some threads offensive, but I think you need to grow a thicker skin and remember where you are. Sex can be respectful, but it can also be dirty, sweaty, raunchy and nasty. Which is ok too!

Well, there's certainly been a lot of activity hereabouts recently :) A few things to say... Well, welcome to the Internet. You can never predict what will happen to anything here. We'll probably all be on The National tomorrow. Well, each to their own. I don't particularly enjoy the blow-by-blow accounts of what someone did in what positions and how many orgasms they (think they) gave the lady either, but those bits are easy enough to skim over while reading, and I daresay other folks like them. The important message of a reco - "I saw X, and had a good time" is what matters, and that invariably gets through. What I would like to say, though, is that it was the recos that brought me here in the first place - and although I can't speak for anyone else, I suspect I'm not the only one to whom this applies. I started off looking at the recos while trying to pluck up the courage to actually go and see someone, and then at some point began reading the other forums too, and then contributing occasionally, and... well, here we are! The point is that without the recos I probably wouldn't be here in the first place. You may or may not consider this a good thing :) As for the complaints from various people about various threads not being to their liking... seriously, folks, get over it. The world is not always going to arrange itself to your liking, even a relatively friendly corner of it like CERB, and I don't believe that complaining makes friends or influences people. As a more constructive suggestion, perhaps those people who don't like certain styles of thread could attempt to redress the balance by starting more threads of the sort that they approve of, or contributing more to the threads they like? You never know, you might manage to get other people to join in too... On the DATY vs digits thread, which was explicitly complained about: if that thread means that a single SP somewhere doesn't get her cervix bruised and her vagina scraped by an over-enthusiastic but ignorant client, I think it'll have been well worth it. Knowledge is good. The squeamish are free to look away. But really, it'd be nice if people would contemplate the consequences of ignorance before getting too offended by someone asking a well-meant question in one of the few places anywhere where they might get a sensible answer from a knowledgeable person. And yes, I'm aware of the irony of my complaining about other people complaining, but I don't see any way around it. Bait... taken. See what complaining gets you? :)

It may be worth noting that Tania wrote a book, and no doubt would like sell more copies. Also she ran illegal brothels, illegal agencies, out of apartment/condos, and probably found herself afoul of the law. She also gained a reputation on review boards for getting banned (self promotions/shilling/fake reviews/multiple handles), then creating new handles over and over to do it again. She spent a great deal of money on photos, advertising, location, etc, then in recruiting workers. I have a hard time seeing her as someone totally focused on paying legal fees in custody cases, if she was spending that much on self promotion, that could have been spent elsewhere. She also used face pics, not exactly the M.O. of someone who is desperately seeking custody, imo, as that sort of sp would be far less likely to expose herself that way. She also was revealed to posting w4w ads on casual encounters CL to seek out women that she would then talk into the business. She also managed to hire a 16 or 17 year old girl in her micros. I mean, as a predator and manipulator, she's quite infamous. At the end of the day, I think her role as former sex worker/abolitionist is another master plan of manipulation to take advantage of yet another group of people.

You have every right to your opinion, but I don't think that some of the guys who have spoken up have anything to apologize for. There's a lot of very good stuff here, but some of the guys posting here (and I would include myself in this group) are responding the way they are as they are likely getting a little fed up with the recent negative comments about how "many" of us (or is it "most" of us ... Smile) are objectifying women or are otherwise being jerks. That's a lot of baloney IMO and we have the track records here to prove it.

I'm a member of the -ERB boards that start with P and T, in addition to this one. I may have posted 6-10 times on the others, maybe less. For awhile, I advertised on one of them and I may again, but not because I enjoy the conversation or reading the vile things that are written there. I'm a businesswoman and it's my experience that some very fine gentlemen do take the time to weed through the nonsense to find the woman who's right for them and then they often spend a considerable amount of money on her. I'm willing to be discovered by such men. See, that's where I start. I didn't decide to be a paid companion because I have a tender heart. I got into this business because I needed the income. I know who I am and what I have to offer; I know that there are very, very few others like me in this business; I have a reasonable grasp of economic theory. So, I took a risk and things have worked out very well. The sex trade is built upon the objectification of women. There's no question about that. However, I'm old enough and I've been around long enough that I can say that the "best <insert body part>" threads seem a bit trite to me, but I'm not offended by them. Men like to look at all kinds of women, all the time. It's how their minds are wired. I appreciate gorgeous young women who seem to spend all their waking hours at the gym, too. Moreover, I think I understand something about the fantasy that drives those "best of" threads and I know that it's got nothing to do with me, or the women in the photos. Not at all. Most men don't come within a country mile of looking like Adonis, or David, or George Clooney. Personally, I find something bittersweet about middle-aged men mooning over young models and stunningly beautiful-looking escorts, wanting them, wanting to feel the way they hope they would feel if they were with those girls, or the way they think they might have felt and looked, themselves, when they were her age. I have an inkling that one of the down-sides of spending time with those photos is that a man has to feel a kind of dull sadness at some level, at least once in a while. Because, even if he can get that woman to see him, even if he can touch her and have sex with her, he can't have her. Not because there's anything wrong with her, or even that there's anything wrong with him, but because even he really wants something much more complex, engaging and enthralling than simple beauty, perfect breasts or a firm, round backside. What he really, really wants isn't what she's selling and he can't buy it, anywhere. That unattainable factor can be frustrating for some men, it's true. A very few become angry, embittered, misogynistic because they feel they're entitled to have what they've seen, especially if they can pay for it. But the grand majority of men aren't like this at all. They do distinguish between fantasy and reality. They know that a paid companion is a real woman with thoughts, needs, concerns and an imagination and a spirit of her own. Men want to have some fun, relax a bit, forget about the rest of the world for an hour or two. Most don't want to hurt anyone, including the companion. Most do their best to treat us well. This is my experience, at least. As for the threads that ask whether companions prefer this activity or that one, or whether they do this thing or another one, they don't bother me at all. I don't reply to them too often, but I do sometimes, because I've learned that as much as men like to portray themselves as knowledgeable and highly experienced, the simple fact is that most are not, no matter how many women they've been with. Most are much more shy than they'll admit. They hope that doing this, touching here, nuzzling there, trying to be gentle when it's the time for that, and trying to be more controlling when it's time for that too, everything will be okay. The fact is that they don't know whether this or that touch feels the way they want it to, or how to go about discussing the one special thing they hope they might be able to do. And I know that when someone starts a thread about "digits," even though most of the men will say, in sober, serious tones, that they always wash their hands thoroughly, they always make sure their nails are neatly trimmed and filed, they always make sure to move smoothly and slowly with lots of lube.... they're not really telling the truth. All that matters is that they've gotten the message: there are some things they need to keep in mind that maybe they hadn't thought about. I think this is one of the great things about CERB. Our society isn't half as liberated as it likes to imagine. Men and women don't talk about sex very often or very well. Asking questions takes a lot of nerve. No one wants to seem ignorant or inept, but none of us learned a damn thing about love-making in high school sex ed classes. How bodies feel, what feels good, what can feel good under certain circumstances, what might be wonderful in other circumstances--where did we learn that? Heck, from my high school sex ed classes, all I learned was that menstruation was a manageable hassle, pregnancy was a huge issue and that there were some nasty "venereal diseases" out there. No one ever mentioned orgasms, let alone masturbation (solo or mutual), hand-jobs or blow jobs. I learned about those things, clumsily, in various parked cars with others who didn't know any more than I did. But men can come here and ask questions about what women like and how to do it, or why some are reluctant to do some things but will do others. Where else can they go to get this kind of information? Not at home! If a couple doesn't have frank, open, gentle and loving conversations about their bodies, how they work and what each person likes and doesn't like--if they don't have those conversations in the early months of their relationship, they will never have them at all, no matter how many decades they're together. So, as far as I'm concerned, go ahead, ask. Use whatever words you're comfortable with. I know what you mean, even if I don't like the word. That word isn't about me, anyway. Ask about anal sex. Ask about what we like in DATY. Ask about how we like to have our breasts touched, how to kiss us, how to do anything and everything you're interested in doing. Notice that six of us will give at least eight different responses. Notice too, that, as far as I can remember, none of us will say that you're a fool for asking, or that you have no right to know. If you ask me, I will feel honoured by your vulnerability and trust. I don't think many women enjoy the idea that men just want to get together in some locker room and compare notes about who had whom and how good she was or wasn't, whether she looked as good naked as she did dressed, how far she let them get with her and what they think someone else could try with her next time. We don't like that. But I don't see a lot of that, here. It happens, to some degree, in the recommendations and in the threads about how to push the boundaries in the strip club or whether the massage artists will go farther than advertised. I think that the writers of those threads speak for themselves. Everyone is advertising here, all the time. I'm as likely to be over-sensitive as anyone else is, at times. Some days, I don't like reading the boards. Other days, I find things here that make me want to cry because they're so real, so open, so vulnerable and true. Some days I'm patient. Other days, I'm a cranky bitch. Turning off the computer on bad days and taking the dog to run along the beach can be the best thing.

Lots of guys and maybe some girls may hate this post, but here goes.... I used to browse CERB a lot, not because of all the wonderful women, but the boards had some intelligent, insightful conversations about meaningful things. It gave me insight about perspectives that I wouldn't have thought of, educated me about issues that I didn't know too much about, and sometimes even just was a thread for a nice laugh. Lately though, to be honest, people may hate this, but I think a lot of the threads here are $%#$. I'm talking about threads such as the Best Bums on the Planet, DATY vs DIGITS, How to get extras in a strip club, Red Head Appreciation Group, etc. I think they involve very little thought, and are treating the women here like they are on a lesser level. It's like they are judges on American Idol, and the women are contestants. I think the people think just because they have the freedom to write or post whatever they want, they have the power to nitpick on every single little negative thing about the girls. They might not think they are doing it with these threads, but let's be real, they are. How would the guys like if they were put on a stage? Spotlight shining right on them. I'm sure anybody put on that stage with the spotlight right on them, with a judge, judging them would find numerous negatives. I just don't think it's right. I think they are shallow. To be honest, I am sad that all these threads exist. Sure I don't have to look at them and I don't. But it saddens me that a majority of the threads when I open up the general discussion are exactly like that. I don't even look at the reco's to be honest. To be brutally honest, I think they're $hit. These girls aren't like take-out or delivery. You just can't pick out all the items on a plate and expect to get it from a girl. Every experience should be unique, and to be honest, when choosing a girl, it isn't because somebody writes they give expletive expletive expletive sloppy hot wet bare back blowjob, I'll choose her because I find a connection thru PM's, e-mails, whatever. These girls aren't just menu items, or can be replicated. They are unique, and each session is unique. Just because situation A happens with billy bob, doesn't mean situation A will happen with Willy Wonka. Each session is unique, and I'm glad it's that way. These women aren't robotic, they are real human beings. I wish guys started treating them that way. Sure, you have the freedom to write whatever you want. But whatever happened to simple common courtesy and respect?

Yes perhaps you should just let it go, after all it is a adult play ground, and this is just part of the daily routine here as far as I'm concerned. If we were all to hear no 'sex'... speak no 'sex'... and see no 'sex'....with the abbreviations commonly used here, or the f word or the variations used to describe ladies parts, in general discussion or other any other threads...well it just would not be what the gentlemen are looking to learn about, and I don't think in reality it would be good for both parties. My point of view...lady advertises..guy pays and books time..comes back here and writes a rec..YMMV. Why do some kiss and tell? Well there is a long list in reality I'm sure, some gents like to pass on their information through threads or rec's, or like simply glow with fact what they have accomplished with a MA or a SP with some class or sometimes with details in a rec, very seldom is there any mention of DATY or Digits with a MA in recs (unless I missed those ;). By the way quite a few women do the same, it is not unheard of in thread where a women has bragged or said she likes to " give a great juicy blow job", or "big or small I can fucking stroke them all" If we are turn your way of thinking(if that what you are thinking Erin) with not using the mentioned abbreviations, or the not using recommendations, a man and a woman having multiple orgasmic times, or if a man prefers shaven or not shaven, or DATY and Digits... then I ask what is the entire sense of the board if we don't have something to talk about? Must we talk about cooking,weaving,cats,dogs,elephants...I don't know..everything under the rainbow but sex? And sex terms are addressed and used in different manners on each and every Escort board. OH and I believe in old fashioned chivalry(I like that when I'm one on one with a lady ;) ) and yes it goes a long way! On this board we all explore our sexual needs, and desires, but there is something about being honest and upfront about sexuality and how to chat about it regardless of type of words being used in a thread. Is it to simply come on the board read ad's book a lady and speak no 'sex' here on the board? I think in all honesty if you go back and read threads from 2007, you will see the language was quite more offensive then it is today. This board has taken a 360 turn in the past while, with rules in place, advertising requirements,banning of meat heads that do not belong. I also can say I would feel that 90% of the gents do and give ladies the highest respect then it might of been back in 2007, who knows but change has happened. Things are good here, if we are to add more rules or guys are asked refrain from using this expression or that expression in sexual terms, it just makes people wonder what am I doing here? Does this make sense to anyone??? Perhaps I'm babbling but it is the end of a day, and I see these threads pop up, and I just needed to say my piece. No harm, no foul, just saying it from the chest (pounds of heart side). Happy hobbying everyone, and yes Erin ladies do give us their treasure gifts, and the gents here do give respect back, as far as I'm concerned.

SA, you and I don't agree about a number of things, as we've seen in other threads, but we deal with each other pretty well, nevertheless. And so, in that spirit, I challenge you to come out, in public, along with the sex workers who are able to take a public position. Workers can, indeed, make effective statements about why they're in the sex trade; that they weren't brainwashed or trafficked into it; that they are, as you say, normal, ordinary women; that they're not drug addicts or slaves; that they don't rely on pimps, but they do want to be able to employ driver and bodyguards, as necessary; and that they want to have the freedom to live with whomever they choose without concern that those others may be charged with living on the avails of prostitution and being found in a bawdy house. Men can--and should--come out, too. Prohibitionists such as Tania make a lot of hay in their endless statements that the men who engage prostitutes are violent, degrading, abusive and dangerous. They portray men as seeking out sex workers because they believe that it's okay to abuse, injure and murder us. Occasionally, they'll allow that some men are not violent, they're just desperate; can't get a date any other way; have gross physical limitations, disabilities or deformities that most women can't cope with; and that the last thing any of them is interested in is "normal" sex. None of these stereotypes is true, of course. It would make an enormous difference if men who enjoy spending time with paid companions would simply come out, in public, and say so. They can demonstrate by their very presence and openness that they are not what the prohibitionists and fear-mongers say they are. SA, you go to great lengths to ensure that you see companions only within the limits of the laws as they are now. Since what you do is completely legal, you have nothing to be ashamed of. I challenge you to stand up and be counted.

I think umm, err.. you are all right! perhaps I have been blinded by any vulgerness or have just missed out, but I do see so many positive lovely and beautiful words on here everyday said about the awesome ladies and gents on here. You all rule and rock by the flock! thank you!

Couldn't agree more, Cleo! CERB is nothing if not a place which celebrates diversity...in every respect, including the sexual. Some people like to get explicit, some don't. Some people like to say pussy, some like to say kitty, some like to say vagina (which sounds a little clinical if you ask me, I have a preference for "kitty" myself :p). The intent of a post is everything, not the language. If the poster's heart is in the right place, and is being respectful, I honestly don't care what words they're using. And as for certain topics being offensive, I agree some may be, but others which are being deemed as offensive, I think really are not...a good example is the Daty vs Digits thread. The OP just had an honest question, I don't think he views the women here as just a list of acronyms and services..it's just that, where else can he ask such a question and get an unbiased, non-judgmental female point of view from multiple sources? This is one of the things I like most about cerb. I recently posted a similar thread, asking about a particular fantasy of mine, http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58575, Now, my posting this question doesn't mean I only view the ladies here as something to cum on. I have the utmost respect for the ladies here. It's just that being someone who has never been ejaculated on, I was curious how pleasant or unpleasant this act would be to ladies and if my request would be deemed unacceptable or not, and was looking for multiple points of views. Now where else could I go to get an non-judgmental opinion on such a topic? It's not exactly something I can ask my female friends on facebook about, lol. Nor can I ask any of my female coworkers lol...I can picture it now "Hey Becky, did you get that memo about that new policy? Ok good. Oh by the way, can I get your opinion on something as a woman? How would you feel about your male partner cumming on your face and then proceeding to go down on you before you have a chance to clean up?" ...yeah...that would go over REAL well...goodbye job, hello, black eye and a sexual harassment suit :p. So really....there's not really any other place for us to ask these types of questions. At the end of the day, considering the type of site that cerb is, there will always be posts or threads that will offend some and not others. If a certain topic offends us we just need to say to ourselves "oh well" and move on to the next thread. p.s, a little bit of shameless self promotion here :p, but I understand how many people may feel the need to censor themselves on the general topics or recommendations for fear of offending others, I find myself doing the same. So to those people who enjoy getting a little more explicit, and enjoy occasionally using some non-PC terms (in other words, people who like to talk dirty) but are afraid to do it on the open forums, feel free to join up the "Fans of The Lost Art (or not so lost art) of Dirty Talking" group, http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/group.php?groupid=88. It's new and only has a few posts so far, but I'm hoping all you "dirty little perverts" ;) will help me get it filled full of filthy fucking nastiness, lol. I'm hoping it'll be no holds barred there as it's all just for fun and fantasy and not actual recommendations or anything, in other words, nothing meant to be taken to heart or taken too seriously.

I agree with fortunateone: Tania was the kind of sex worker who gives most of us a very bad name. And it's not an accident that she has a book out that she wants to promote. I also find it telling that she believes that nearly all of the women she pimped out were drug addicts. I don't believe it, to begin with, but if it's true, it says more about her and what she was willing to do to make money for her own purposes than it does about anything else. I also take offense against her sob-story about being a poor woman who was battling for the custody of her children, all the way to the SCC, but who says she managed, on the way, to become a wealthy entrepreneur and madam, managing the work and skimming off the incomes of up to 500 women. I came into this business because I was battling for the custody of my children, too. Sex work made it possible to pay the bills and look after my kids. If I'd had the skills, the insights and above all the time to become a high-flying madam, well, I sure wouldn't be biting the hands of those who made it possible for me to do what I needed to do to care for my children. That she says that she found Jesus and has repented of her old life also doesn't wash with me. She's still caught up in the sex trade, but from a different angle. And I don't think that Jesus aimed to make a lot of women unemployed and unemployable, either. He was more likely to have dinner with them and a lot of other social outcasts, like tax collectors and political insurgents. Having ended that little rant, I want to point out that there are things we can do. We can attend these meetings and ask questions. We can also write letters to the editors of our local papers, websites, radio stations, etc., and raise a few points. Canada already has laws against human trafficking. What's wrong with them? Why do we need new laws? How many victims of human trafficking is she talking about? Where does she get her data? The simple fact is that there is no straightforward way to count migrant and/or trafficked workers, anywhere. They don't report in to some agency or register with employment services organizations. How does she distinguish between trafficked labour and migrant labour? What concern can she demonstrate for people who are forced to travel to other countries, against their will, to work as farm labourers, construction labourers and domestic labourers? Is she really supporting those who are trying to prevent immigration of all kinds, or who are migrant workers who come to North America to work as undocumented labourers? Prohibitionists frequently see all women migrants as sexually vulnerable above all other considerations (such as needing to earn money to support family members in their countries of origin). They lump women and children together as though women were children with no agency or decision-making authority. They characterize women as incapable of initiating migration or as incapable of making a free choice to do sex work rather than the kinds of menial, underpaid jobs ordinarily available to undocumented, illegal immigrants. Is she branding all women who migrate to Canada as trafficked prostitutes? Some migrants come here and decide to work in the sex trade instead of other kinds of work. Is she opposed to their migration, or just prostitution? Many women resist being "rescued" from prostitution. How does she account for this? If her concern is for women who engage in street prostitution, how does she account for the preponderance of substance addiction and mental illness found among SWs? What steps is she taking to campaign against the illicit drug trade? In what ways does she advocate for everyone's immediate access to mental health services? In what ways is she pressuring local, provincial and federal governments and law enforcement agencies to uphold the laws we already have against trafficking and pimping? How does she hope to increase the number of charges and convictions for these crimes? What plans does she suggest for the women whom she is attempting to put out of work? How will she ensure that they are able to earn a liveable income, live in safe conditions and retain custody of their children?

I know this is an adult board but there are better ways to say things...personally i rather the gentlemen just ask me in a pm or email.. Even then I want respect...as I'm sure every man does. In private we can have the dirty talk..:wink:

Hello everyone, I may ruffle a few feathers but after reading many threads over the past several months in the General Discussion area, I have a few things I need to address and have faith that most of the hobbiests here are Gentleman I would consider spending my time with. First off, I have learned many new acronyms or Urban Dictionary terminology from the threads on this board. Do I agree that a vagina is a pussy or kitty? I do not, but the word surfaces daily on this board in discussion. I may just not be cut out to read these threads as I am a woman with substance and will not let you know how big my other lips are, if it's shaved or unshaved, or respond publically to any of these threads. Is it just the ignorance of grasping for the proper ways to ask a question? I"m sure I will quickly figure out the answers and have so far continued the faith that the Gent's who start these threads are respectful. However, I'm having a hard time just seeing these threads up even though I don't read them. So when I wake up with my morning coffee, log into to read the General Discussion area and see thread titles of "Daty vs Digits." "Greek or no Greek", etc. It really makes me question things here and a few have almost made me spit of my coffee on a few occasions. Every sensual, sexual erotic encounter is a gift for both the provider and client and I will use "YMMV" for this one. Please don't disrespect us, get to know us a little and ask us personally. Please always remember as well that we are women. If ever I had anyone in my personal life speak to me in this way they wouldn't be with me. Yet, here we are spoken to this way, asked very personal questions, menu item questions randomly thrown out there, etc. I may be old school but do believe old fashioned chivalry goes a long way, even here as we explore our sexual needs. I will always value and cherish my clients that treat me as Erin, not as a menu item or topic of the ??? day.. Hoping this falls upon understanding ears and do enjoy being a part of this board. I just had to get it off my chest as this has bothered me for some time. Cheers! Erin

Everyone is allowed to have and express and opinion but would it not be more constructive to listen, learn and educate oneself rather than stick strickly to what you know for a fact? It is very satisfactory to learn as much as possible about a topic you are interested in as you may find that your opinions will change!

A simple ensemble, one slutty and one sexy.

First off, to clarify: I do not care about threads discussing various services, I do not care what language you use to describe body parts or services. My post was kind of a garbled rant; chalk it up to posting at 4am. What I found incredibly offensive were various posters brushing off Erin's concerns by saying she is "too sensitive." She's an adult who expressed her opinion. This is the sense of entitlement I am referring to; that since you disagree with her, it's ok to be condescending and dismissive. And to WIT, I feel that referring to this thread and threads like it as "client-bashing" is sensationalism at best. Some of the things I brought up were totally off-topic and I got a bit carried away, and I apologize for that--I certainly believe that jerkoff clients are in the minority, but some of them are also CERB posters. So yes, I know that some of them are, in fact, reading my rantings. I'd love to find a happy medium where the women are celebrated as human beings and not as objects (and I am not saying that that any of you do it intentionally or maliciously) and clients can still enjoy themselves.

I'm less concerned about the content of the debate and more bothered by the manner in which it's delivered, and that goes for a post or two I've seen by the ladies as well. I don't agree with Erin's position, but I respect her right to have and express it and am happy to discuss/debate the ideas. The tone took a pretty nasty turn from Berlin's post, through Pete's contribution and SAs and it go pretty out of control. I think that's worth apologizing for, whether the ideas they were trying to express were valid or not.

...as we all have our moments - now don't we? My nickname here is BownChickaBown. Apologizes accepted ES :icon_razz: Wabi Sabi Everyone :D **By extension of the "I like" positivity thread... I like to live and dream in COLOUR!! ;) PS: Thx scrb, but what's this 'we' thing - I am not French :icon_razz: Plz don't try and speak for me, as there is no need - perception to 'rational' and 'adult' is relatively subjective, and I personally have nothing to apologize for.

To begin, it is clear to me that, as clients, we have no idea what it is like to be a woman, and much less so a paid companion. However, one of the best things about this board is an opportunity for a man to get a glimpse into that world. CERB is a world where women are being open about both the positive and negative aspects of the business, both sexes are open about their sexuality and preferences and the community as a whole is in a constant state of learning. I know that I learn something new every time I log on. Now obviously, as clients, we don't see a lot of the behind the scenes bullshit that you women have to put up with. We only get small glances how you are being treated in private messages, emails and behind closed doors by other men, be they lurkers, non-members of CERB or active participants. It is my feeling that the majority of the threads listed as being offensive or objectifying are started by men who are genuinely curious about a particular topic and trying to learn more information to improve their own behaviour and performance when with women. And at the end of the day, if the men on this board are learning why certain women don't like certain activities, and how they should act when with a woman, are they not learning to be respectful? By learning to communicate their own sexual desires and preferences, isn't it more likely that a man can have open and honest sexual communication with a woman, ensuring a better session for both parties? It seems to me that this is a clear example of men attempting to be respectful of the women's wishes and learning to be better lovers and better men as a result. I hope that CERB remains a place where we all continue to learn more about each other's sexuality as this is no doubt a good thing in the long run for everyone involved. Lastly, it is important to remember that language is extremely powerful. The way we choose our words reflects a lot about our personalities. However, different words have different connotations to each individual and there may be specific words that trigger negative connotations for one person and positive connotations for another. I think that it is extremely hard to be open about your sexuality without using words that are going to offend some people. As such, I think we must be tolerant and empathetic towards the language used by both men and women in this forum, while making an effort not to be purposefully offensive.

Guess we can close this thread and many others that have those awful words to describe a woman's body parts, come on seriously? Berlin, should I go back and post all your relative comments that you used describing your own ..vagina, or should I say clit, or can I say pussy..fuck what can we say without having our heads ripped off! While we are at it perhaps should we close all the recommendations too they have some awful words!....oh noooo.... he used the word pussy??fuck I think I see enough pussy in one thread and those are the four legged types!!and now those fucking cats are in just about every thread..DO you see me bitchin about that thread or others? No!! I just don't read it! So Danielle perhaps you should read any more recs, after all now you just insulted a good portion of the men that gave back to this site, and of course recommended a lady to other men...But no you think it is ALL shit! Nice Danielle!! real nice. And yes I know the ladies are not take out order..what a comment that was! Berlin...if I may "But CERB is one of the only places where us ladies are welcomed with open arms and encouraged to interact with clients. I'd like to think that I can use this venue and my interactions with clients to at least educate/enlighten/open your eyes to these things. I'm not expecting any of you to change, because I tend to suspect many of you will write me off as the cranky feminist in the house, but I like to hope that others will read this and realize that perhaps their behaviour or words are offensive." So I guess now you are asking us men to be reasonable mannered men, and stop using terms that are offensive, and use better behaviour. But yet it is okay for you describing very own 'vagina' well you called it 'clit' http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=235267#post235267 Turn-ons you used the 'fuck' and 'cock' http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=238399#post238399 So you see we are not the only ones that use words that may describe an action, or a body part that MAY offend some other ladies that are too delicate to this world. Lastly Berlin when you say... 'I think what Erin is trying to get at is that very often these boards and the men who post on them tend to convey this sense of entitlement--that because you have money and are anonymous, you can nitpick body parts, ask for discounts, and generally be ignorant dicks. Let me be clear, I am not saying that you are all like this, but that many of you ARE. EVEN ON CERB." Actually yes it is my entitlement to perhaps post in a thread, just like it is yours and everyone else here on the board. If you and I use the same term describing a 'vagina' so be it, am I to worry now that I have offended another lady because you and I said either pussy or clit? REALLY??? I do not like being called out that where you lump 'many of you are' looking for discounts, nit picking body parts,asking for discounts (That itself is a very low blow to many of us here that participate regularly and I'm insulted by your comment and generalizing MANY men) You are right we do not know "what it feels like" or for that fact to be in your shoes, but seriously these type of words are going change or help things? WIT said it right above " I strongly believe that there should be room for the clients here to enjoy themselves, too - and to vent a tiny bit of testosterone here and there. Testosterone is not entirely evil, despite its being, by its nature, occasionally "over-enthusiastic". Without over-enthusiastic testosterone, there'd be no demand for escorts in the first place." I just hope we can enjoy ourselves here,or perhaps it is time to move on.

I, for one, don't think that this is all that fair. I don't think that asking questions relating to a woman's body means that the questioner is equating the woman to a "sperm socket". Let's not forget that this board is an escort review board - not strictly a social board. While not all clients have preferences, many do. And that's ok. There's a way to ask questions in a respectful manner - for certain. And for many of us, myself included, time with a provider is an honor, not a privilege. Still, it's entirely fair for a client to want to know certain things before entering into a commercial relationship. And asking should be ok. This is, in the end, a board about matching clients with providers. For many of us, it's more, but in essence, that is it's main function. Some guys use the term "kitty", others care if the "kitty" is shaved. Who are we to judge. As long as there is respect shown, even in the eye of the beholder, I don't think we should chastise. We're all different. In the end, we're all here to have fun. Sexual and sensual fun. I would hate to see this place so sanitized that we can't be open with our desires, our questions, our preferences, and our fantasies. Sorry if this is out of line - but this thread hit a nerve. I have always loved CERB partly because I can be me here... Even if "me" isn't perfect.

This topic could overlap with several others, but I think it deserves its own thread. I have a client with a physical disability. He's paraplegic, in a wheelchair. He can stand up, but he doesn't walk. He's fully functional and a lot of fun to be with. My incall location isn't wheelchair accessible. The first time I saw him, we met in a hotel. I've seen him in his home four or five times since then. He's charming, great to talk to, empathetic and very kind. He's also a great lover. When he first contacted me, he asked whether I catered to special needs and explained his disability. We spoke on the phone at length before we met. He seemed a bit shy, and I had the impression both that he's mostly seen paid companions since he became disabled and that many others had turned him down. He feels he needs more help than most women would be willing to offer, but that's not my experience at all. I can't imagine why he wouldn't make a fine partner for a good woman. What are others' experiences of clients with disabilities? What helped? What would you do differently? What do you need to know before you meet with the client?

Thank you Luxie. For the most part I have truly enjoyed and appreciated the positivity and the mutual support that both the men and women continually give to each other. This is an awesome community, and not despite of, but rather because of the variety of opinions and views.

The angry feminist comment was more so of a general comment playing off of what people usually label me for giving the examples that I did. It was not directed at you per se, moreso in general. I'm quite a proud feminist and therefore was mocking the use of feminism as a negative term by people unlike myself or yourself for that matter.

no more drama. let's have sex and laugh at this video or awwww http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/whale-enjoys-mariachi-band/1gl2bpr1c

I'm very sad and disturbed that someone who retains our services would support a criminal system that stigmatizes us and puts us in physical danger.

SA, I never thought that you would take a public stance in favour of decriminalizing prostitution. You've been clear about liking things the way they are even though you know that the current laws put women in enormous danger and make street workers easy prey for the likes of Robert Picton. I don't know what you think of him or the women he killed, but it is no longer possible to consider that the stories of missing and murdered women are exaggerations or fabrications. Picton is reported telling a stoolpigeon in his jail cell that he'd killed 49 women, and wanted to make it 50 before he retired from his work. He had every reason to think he would succeed, too, since the Vancouver City Police didn't t consider aboriginal prostitutes to be a priority. It is troubling to me that anyone should imagine that by only engaging paid companions in outcalls, and thereby staying within the narrow limits of the law, no one connected with those outcalls is working illegally. If men who seek outcalls use escort agencies, they know they're dealing with a pimp or a madam--people who are living off the avails of prostitution. Agencies are very good at matching up clients' sexual interests with the things their girls are or are not willing to do while quoting prices for the services the client wants. True, telephone conversations are considered private communication and so the agencies aren't subject to prosecution, but everyone knows this is a smokescreen. If the SP is driven to her meeting by someone else, that driver is also living off the avails, because he's working for the agency, even if the SP is, technically, working legally. The courts have long been clear about this: prostitutes are not entitled to use drivers or bodyguards; if they do, those staff are living on the avails. It's true that it's not difficult to get around this since agency outcalls are arranged privately and no one really pays much attention as long as everything is done quietly, without disturbing the neighbours. But, again, it's a smokescreen. My point is not to split legal hairs or quibble about details, however. What I'm trying to say is that thoughtful people recognize that it is impossible for a woman to work as a prostitute legally if she involves anyone else in her work. But if she doesn't--if she sets up her calls, herself, and drives herself to meet the client at his hotel or home--she puts herself at enormous risk, with no back-up immediately available to her if she needs it. Tania will make her tour and she will consistently exaggerate any numbers she refers to. I, for one, have no problem imagining that, over the course of her career as a madam, she may well have worked with 500 women. Most women don't stay in the sex trade for more than a few months, if that. High turnover at agencies is believable to me, particularly if the agency knowingly accepts women with addictions, as she claims to have done. In fact, she claims that all of the women who worked for her were addicts. I find that very hard to believe, but I'm sure she can't prove it and I know that I can't, either. I do know that the best agencies in Vancouver haven't worked this way in eons and they won't take on just any pretty woman who applies to be on their list. Everyone should question the stories of thousands of women in every large city who are the victims of coercive pimps or who have been forced to work in virtual or actual slavery in the sex trade. It's not that this doesn't happen. It does. But it's not the norm. Almost 90% of sex workers in Canada work indoors. While there are more prostitutes in every city than most people would ever imagine, anyone can see that our streets are not clogged with women plying their trade. I invite you to go out some evening around 9:00 p.m. and drive through the area where your city's street workers are. Count them. Recognize that you won't be able to see all of them--some will be working in a nearby alley or car or a cheap hotel and some work during the daytime but not at night. Others may work much later than 9:00. Some work in the very wee hours of the morning. My own estimate, as someone who spends a lot of time in the Downtown Eastside where I do volunteer work with a poverty agency, is that the number of street workers in this city may be only 3-5%. But more than 500 have gone missing or been found murdered in the last 40 years. Decriminalization will not increase human trafficking or sexual slavery. We can look at the experiences of places like Australia and New Zealand, neither of which report any increase in trafficking for sex work. They do note that there are many migrant workers who go to their countries because they choose to participate in the legal sex trade. Migrants make choices; they are not "trafficked." As for coercing women into the sex trade in these countries, it doesn't work. Men have no need to resort to illegally obtaining something that they can get legally and safely. At the end of the day, though, Tania and her friends want to bring a halt to the sex trade. Tania has made millions of dollars in this industry in the past and she's still expecting to make money from it today by exploiting her stories of the women she claims worked for her; by exploiting the social stigma attached to prostitution that prevents many of us in this industry from being able to speak out and challenge her in person, in public; and by exploiting the naiveté of her readers--by those who buy her book. She will earn royalties of about 10-12% on the sales, by the way. No one here agrees with trafficking women into prostitution. None of the paid companions on this board or anywhere else will say that women should be forced to do this work, against their will. None of us will encourage children to be exploited sexually, either. I daresay that we all want not just good laws against trafficking, coercion and exploitation, but also diligent, vigorous enforcement of those laws. And we want to be able to work safely. Tania found Jesus. She says that's why she "turned her life around." I like Jesus, too. Nothing he's reported to have said or done has anything to do with prostitutes. Prostitution isn't even condemned in the Bible, though it is frowned-upon. Slavery is accepted as a given, however, and slave owners are admonished to treat their slaves well. If Tania's new-found religion has helped her find peace, I'm happy for her. However, I believe that Jesus was all about compassion, and I find that quality to be somewhat limited in Tania's analysis. She has compassion for women who don't want to be in the sex trade, but she has none for those of us who do. I, for one, can't understand why Tania's religious epiphany should mean that I should not be able to make a living, doing what I choose to do, providing a valuable service to those who seek me out and who I'm willing to meet with. <end of long posts for awhile!>

To me something sexy is something you could wear to go out in public and can be looked at by all the guys and their SO would not be mad at you or their man. Now the slutty look is what you would wear inside your house for your partners eyes only because if you wear that in public you will have every ones eyes on you and all the guys SO will be mad at both you and their man for looking.

Decided to finally set up an appointment for Megan on Tuesday...and very glad I did. Firstly, the location was conveniently located downtown and inside, her studio/apartment was clean and beautifully lit by candlelight...I had opted for the 90-minute session that begins with a lap dance. When I entered the apartment, I had my first glimpse of Megan...and I was glad that her pictures did not lie..she is even more stunning in person than her amazing photos. As she turned around and led me to the massage room, I could not help but appreciate the perfect butt encased in her slinky silver dress. If you have an appreciation for beautiful legs and heart-shaped tushes, Megan will certainly hit your buttons. Once inside, she directed me to her plush love seat and we spent a few minutes chatting and getting to know each other a little better...than as if my mutual consent, she began her lap dance...as she slowly peeled away the layers I could not help but get very turned on as she exposed her flawless skin, taut stomach and perfect breasts...she is very sensual and gazes into your eyes for almost an electric erotic experience. Not only is she beautiful, but she seems very healthy also...she definitely keeps care of herself, both in mind and body. After the lap dance, she led me to her shower where we lathered each other up a little and made sure to get squeaky clean for the main event...the massage... The first part consisted of me lying on my stomach and watching her oil me up and sliding her body along mine from her mirror positioned on the wall by her massage table. Very erotic. Both of our bodies glistened from the lotion she liberally applied for her body slides...and seeing such a beautiful lady slide up and down your body while kneading your back, legs, arms, etc was a heady experience...after awhile she asked me to turn over... Once I had turned over on my back, she continued to use her body and hands to massage every inch of me...she truly knows her art and prolonged the experience to the fullest...very sexy, sensual and smart lady...once we finished up the massage to it's inevitable conclusion, we chatted a bit more, just lying beside each other on the table and than back to the shower to wash the lotion from our bodies.... It was my first experience with Megan but will certainly not be the last...she has it all...looks, smarts, sensuality and a beautiful personality...I rarely write recos but felt Megan deserved all the accolades I have just heaped upon her...thanks again Megan and we'll see each again soon..:)

Saw Cleo yesterday and all I have to say is wow! Purrrfect! I truly enjoyed my time, love the body artwork, went back to work with a smile on my face! Thanks Cleo :)

Why do it? 'Cause some guys don't want the lady to have a pre-conceived idea about who he is before he shows up. For example, one might assume I'm a certain type of person because of my CERB personality or whatever. If I email you for an appointment and don't tell you my cerb handle, you can't research me and draw conclusions.....I have the opportunity to enter our encounter with a clean slate and then you can draw your own conclusions. That's what I think. NOW, do I do it? No....I'm proud of who I am in person and on CERB and have nothing to hide.

Gotta agree with online shopping! I'm getting Alice Cooper's new album TWO (that's 2) months before it's official release here in Canada. Some deal through a UK rock magazine, get a limited addition version of the cd with a few extra tracks on it, a collectible magazine all about the Coop, and a signed poster, 1 month prior to it's UK release (in which it's being released 1 month earlier than in Canada, thus I'm getting it two months before the official Canadian release) all for about $25 canadian, what I probably would have paid to buy the normal edition of it at HMV, without all the bells and whistles! Yay for online shopping!!

Couldn't give you rep points, have to spread them around a bit, but if I could I would. I'm right now finding it hard to post a thought, except I looked upon this lifestyle as mutually beneficial, with mutual respect for one another. Well insofar as my encounters with the ladies go, nothing has changed or will change. I treat the ladies like a gentleman, and consider that we are in a mutually beneficial lifestyle, and are opposite sides of the same coin. And they are ladies, real three dimensional human beings deserving, as is everyone, of respect. The fact that the ladies are compensated does not mean they give up their right to be treated with respect and dignity. What is disappointing is it seems there is more of a gentleman versus lady here...I hope I'm wrong Sorry I can't articulate it any better, that's the best I could muster, at least for now RG

I like Julia because she is intelligent, quick witted and mysterious.

I agree with this Pete. I think that his comments were very offensive. This is a positive board and coming over and attacking the recommendations given by valued, long time or loyal members commiting their time and afforts to share and promote ladies, open up threads on best bums, and many other high traffic threads to select ladies on the best of basis and the redhead appreciation group to appreciate them is and that is, I quote "treating the women on a lesser level!!!!!". He also makes a number of totally false statements about cerb, like he claims that people have the freedom to write and post whatever they want and they have the power to nitpick on every single little negative thing about the girls. By these statements I think that he brings cerb to the lower level like terb is. cerb has strict rules about what can be posted or commented. This is a positive board and claiming that we nitpick on every single little negative thing about the girls... Hey Daniel, this is cerb lol, not the "t" one. Did you wake up already lol. I am sorry to rant (first time ever I remember) what I am offended by reading his post about valued loyal cerb members (and every contributing cerb member is valued in my book) and the way he brought down this board by his false statements!!!!. Sure this forum is about respect and so is this thread and you have been disrespectful to great many. If the kitchen is too hot (or you don't like the heat) get OUT lol.

...People objectifying themselves for the sake of selling themselves for sex - or other people objectifying others for the sake of buying sex? Let be honest here - This industry only exists because of sexual objectification to sell 'services', as much as some say its just for a companions 'time' - yes, 'sex servicing time'. While I know the biggest sex organ is the brain, and I can appreciate a good (subjective to my view of what 'good' is) brain, conversely, other brains which I do not find attractive leave me with no desire to have sex with just the body. Is that respect? I guess that's what blow-up dolls are for sometimes. In general, if I want to just chat, I go to a chatroom and/or go on a 'date' - Sometimes if I want (hopefully) 'no strings attached' recreational sex - I look for an escort (someone's got to support the industry eh, and the desire of some people to only want to make money and a living just from selling sex - the same way as I have never owned a car but prefer to pay taxi drivers to drive me to work every day as an objectification of their driving ability and time. Thankfully enough, in either case, people are humans and all are unique and allow me to interact with them, and them me, to see their is more to everyone on the inside regardless of the profession one chooses, or how one looks, or doesn't look). While I do not (or better yet, can not) sell sex for a living myself (hard to do when I can't even give it away for free - but I digress), I do whore out my brain as a knowledge nomad for money - which is no different of an objectification of myself and the services my brain provides (see resume for full objectification) to a 'client'/employer than anything else I've seen on this planet. Believe you me, I'd much rather not be a whore to anyone and simply live a life of leisure - but hey, someone's got to pay for the A/C and cable TV while living under the constructs of society and, unfortunately, capitalism. If CERB was only about 'love' - this would be a dating site - NOT an escort site. Escorting is NOT dating - and 'GFE' is a euphemism. Not to say love doesn't exist here, as it does (all around, even through-out this whole thread), but from what I see/experience, it's more like: I love sex with an escort, rather than, I am in love with an escort (which yes, does happen - and from both sides of the fence). Rather rich to listen to some people be offended from themselves objectifying themselves, but are angry about it and others for doing the same. Maybe it's too early for me to get my head around it. Maybe some people, including myself, need more time to look introspectively and learn to love myself no matter what anyone else in the world thinks, objectively or subjectively. As well, rather telling of the industry to see some of the pent-up insecurities some people have and their need to project them on others to justify their existence and profession and/or 'hobby'. (sidebar: another good point was made earlier about even the use of this word to describe paying for sex which others advertise for sale) In the end, I'd rather be open and honest about who I am and how I feel then be pretentious and insecure about the truth - funny how 'shooting the messenger' is a favorite pasttime of so many people thou - which I blame TV and selfish individualism for, but I'll save that diatribe for another post. I could care less to try and satisfy some clique, or sell out my values for greed. *Hugs myself* and says: I am a good person and today is a good day. Carpe Peaciem!! (that is, Peacefully Seize the Day!) PS: Just remember in all this - we don't wake-up to bombs dropping around our heads, so are a few words going to 'break my bones'? I think not. *stops to smell a rose* PPS: IMO, this is one of the best threads I've ever seen here. Thanks to EVERYONE for being the diverse and unique persons they are. :) Uniform thought (with a bunch of followers to one way of living life) has little value to me, and anyone who stops learning only finds themselves living in a World which no longer exists. --> Now click on the link in my signature and listen to the beautiful song - serenity (almost) guaranteed!! ;)

I truly appreciate those who bring topics to the forefront that continue to educate and that continue to give me pause and think and ponder. This is a great debate/discussion and not an argument. It is a topic that has no clearly defined "right or wrong", and as one reads through the various contributions one sees diametrically opposing viewpoints, all of them having their validities, and yes, their flaws. Phaedrus with his usual wisdom said, " I really don't think this is something where we're ever going to find a common standard that suits everyone." As one who walked into Cerb with no prior experience, and certainly believing the prevailing stereotypes, I have had my views conformed, adjusted and in many ways they have been reversed. Initially Cerb was about one thing and one thing only - sex. Ultimately I suppose it is still about sex, but what has made this so amazing has been the interactions with the women, and many of these interactions are far beyond merely physical. The terminology that is used here is in many cases not the terminology that I would choose, however much of that terminology I have 'learned' and adopted from the women who are on the board. In many cases one need only follow one link to get to a complete list of 'menu items'. Each of us are different, men and women alike. A commonality is however that desire by all of us to be appreciated as people, to be treated politely, and to be recognized that we are a whole package and not just as having a set of 6pack abs or a cute butt. Elizabeth said it well here with," First and foremost, we are human beings....." Menu items and terminology and communication of interests and desires must play a role though at times. A very personal example would be in the fact that I do have an interest in having anal sex, an experience/fantasy yet to be fulfilled. If and when I want that then I suppose that I will be looking at the very least at 'menu items', or through pms asking specifically of individual women. The terminology that I use would probably refer to anal sex as opposed to 'greek." I learned from experience that women are not mind readers and I also have read posts from one woman after another expressing her desire forcommunication of interests, likes and/or dislikes. On the other side of it, a scripted, step by step scenario of who will do what, and when, and how, is not an appealing thing to me. To quote Erin, " I like the mystery and if too much is put out there before, for me, it's a turn off. I know some hobbiests do it to ensure their experience will be exactly as they want, but how does it make it sexy if you know ahead of time"? Berlin in her usual blunt and straight to the point manner also makes me wonder, but off in another direction. "Sorry dudes, but unless you're a woman, you're never going to understand what it is like to deal with all this crap on a daily basis." And " I'm honestly sick of hearing various ladies' concerns brushed off by men who have no idea what the fuck they're talking about or what it feels like to be us." Perhaps I have no clue so yeah, that is a very real possibility. The women here know of their experiences. I only know of my own, and how I interact with a woman. I do know that I have strong sense from the writing that most men here do try to be considerate of the women that they meet with. I see that in their writing but also from the comments that many women include in their own posts. All women? All men? I doubt it. It is not a perfect world. WIT in his post used used the term "client bashing." Gotta be honest here and state that I have felt that at times, strongly. Perhaps it is me misinterpreting words or perhaps it was a poor choice of wording by the writer, but sometimes the sense is there. I have said in more than one thread how my stereotypes have changed as I see and experience more realities with real women. One powerful stereotype that is 'out there', is that deep down sex workers are men haters. Do I believe that? No??????? But some of the comments I read here DO make me realize that I have not dropped that stereotype completely, and, if it is ever found to be a reality by me, will be my reason for leaving. I will not interact with a woman who brushes me off, or who disrespects me as a person. Berlins words work both ways. Perhaps there are times when the women do not understand in the least what it is like to be us. We also want what Erin wants as she expressed so well in her original and follow up posts. Finally, Samantha's words. "The sex trade is built upon the objectification of women. I have an inkling that ....... a man has to feel a kind of dull sadness at some level, at least once in a while. Because, even if he can get that woman to see him, even if he can touch her and have sex with her, he can't have her. Not because there's anything wrong with her, or even that there's anything wrong with him, but because even he really wants something much more complex, engaging and enthralling than simple beauty, perfect breasts or a firm, round backside. What he really, really wants isn't what she's selling and he can't buy it, anywhere. Most are much more shy than they'll admit. They hope that doing this, touching here, nuzzling there, trying to be gentle when it's the time for that, and trying to be more controlling when it's time for that too, everything will be okay. Asking questions takes a lot of nerve. No one wants to seem ignorant or inept......." She could be talking specifically about me, and I am giving an educated opinion that there are many more men very similar to myself. Mrgreen expressed his views on the overuse of the word respect. respect of course does have different meanings to each of us in our own way. Mine is probably pretty old-fashioned. In my reading I see some REALLY well respected Cerb members of both sexes disagreeing, and that is fine and that is fair. I also am reading into those posts that they are written with a desire to express and share altenate opinions on views and most interestingly enough, I am pretty confident that if they were all in the same room, there would be a pretty good concensus on respect. We will learn from each other through these forums. We will not always agree. Thanks to everone for contributing and trying to help me understand a truly complex topic.

How about..FUCK ME? Anyone use that one?

Hahaha, I had a guy ask me how I prep once, and I said "I take a big shit."

I know I may have a few dissagreements on this one but this is a question that should be answered by open communication, trust that is established through time with someone that we connect with, respect and of course personal hygeine. I don't think it should be asked as a random public question as the answer is very personal and between two consenting adults. I know menu items are put on the plate for the Gents to explore, question and decide, but where is the sensualty and mystery of an experience that can be amazing if two people explore together and build upon by trust, respect and exploration? How clean your nails are have no meaning if the connection is not built. Then it's just a menu item, or I may just be a little old school on this topic.

Let me make it unanimous. Cathy is fabulous.

Bay City Rollers - So Funny. I remember a friend of mine saying they will be bigger than the Beatles. Hah!

oh yeh: