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For a sex-based website... I wonder why some people are wasting time arguing, instead of looking at photos of gorgeous women... and purrhaps even going out to fuck those gorgeous women. This thread has become page after page of anger directed toward two men who have said they don't think negotiation should be a bad word. I've gotta say - I am starting to agree with them. I don't think anyone should be getting so angry, so insulting, so offended, by opinions posted here. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. Don't like it? Then don't read it. Move on. It's the internet... I don't think anyone in this thread, not ONE, has said that everyone should have the right to haggle a service provider. But rather that some girls are open to negotiating, and some specific circumstances demand it. But no one is 'pro-haggling'. So why is everyone getting so bent out of shape? Because two men refuse to back down and let everyone tell them they're wrong? Why should they? Maybe their opinion is wrong for you... doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. And them thinking something you don't like really doesn't effect anyone else personally. Feel anger about this thread? Think someone is a jerk? Go have an orgasm. Relax. And don't let other people's actions piss you off so much. Feeling happy is much, much more enjoyable. Personally, rather than give my until now snarky reply to people who ask to haggle my rates... I am going to do my best to instead just give a polite but firm reminder that my rates aren't negotiable. Who knows... maybe telling someone that no, I won't do an hour for 200, but I will offer 45-minutes for 180... maybe it could all work out.

I think some have lumped you into being a negotiator because you keep referring to what you are doing as negotiation. It isn't. You are requesting a rate based on a scenario that the sp has not (for obvious reasons) listed on her ad, website, or if you call her out of the blue and explain what you are looking for. You are asking her to come up with a rate that covers your requirements, that are not already being offered, because it involves often travel, specific times and durations, that she doesn't account for in her service/rates options. I think that people are forgetting that, and some of your more confrontational replies aren't helping your case lol. You are not haggling, bargaining or negotiating. You are asking for a quote, and once you get a quote, are willing to pay it. These things are completely different. And I agree with the poster who clarified what was being done versus what is being used as the term 'negotiating'. I pointed out the same thing. We aren't talking about negotiation until or unless the client is willing to give up something in order to receive a lower rate. Hagglers don't do that, and in fact often demand more than what is offered for a fee, for a lower rate. If this lower rate is agreed to based on him working within the restrictions and time, he is typically the same sort of guy who then in person continues to push for the things she doesn't provide for that lower rate, and overstays the time paid for. There are very very few exceptions to what happens to sps when they agree to see a haggler. When an sp agrees to see a true negotiator, it is on the condition that he has agreed to something less in exchange for the lower rate. There are few cases where that sp regrets her decision to negotiate that lower rate, because he is not a haggler he does not attempt to do anything that wasn't already agreed to. Before time is up, he is the one getting up and ready to leave to ensure he doesn't overstay his agreed upon time. He is not the guy who then goes into the shower for an additional 20 minutes, or hangs by the door for another 15 just to chat. He knows the agreement and sticks with it, because he knows he wants to continue a good relationship with this sp. What many many sps also object to is that the haggler comes up only on first visits, not for repeating regulars. This isn't usually something a regular does, but it is something that a new caller tries to do. So sight unseen, and services not yet performed, he decides all on his own she charges 'too much' and needs to be taken down a peg or two for having the arrogance to decide how much to charge for what she provides. And like it or not, to most sps, trying to lowball rates is seen as a sign of aggression, and not someone most sps want to deal with in person. We screen for things like this. Being rude, aggressive, controlling, arrogant, etc, all things we look for in first contact. The worst possible thing a truly nice guy can do is ask for a lower rate. However, it is my firm belief that truly nice guys don't ask.

Phaedrus, my friend, you don't see it because your interests are very different. Those who insist that it's good to haggle with or put pressure on us to cut them a special deal aren't really interested in negotiating as much as they're interested in control overall. In my experience, the question is not so much about negotiation as it is about who sets the fee? Who has the right to decide what a lady's time and intimate companionship is worth? Underneath this question are a host of control issues. Who decides what is or is not acceptable; what we will or won't do; what we should or should not expect; how we're going to work, where and when; how many people we may entertain and under what conditions; what risks we should accept as unavoidable for ourselves; how much our safety and security may be risked; what we should expect from neighbours, friends, family, our community if we're discovered to be paid companions--these and many other related things are all about the rights that we women have to determine our own actions. Some men don't accept that we have a right to as much autonomy and integrity of ourselves as persons as they are and so they want to control us, to limit us, to deny, dehumanize, depersonalize, degrade and demean us beginning with our essential worth as human beings. Those men never make good clients. As Sandi pointed out, above, by announcing that they expect special considerations, they communicate that they expect to be the ones who control their time with us and everything that happens in it. It's not about the fee. It's about our right to make choices and decisions that could result in them not getting what they want, on their terms, when they want it.

I feel really sad that an important topic has been debased to arguing the semantics of idioms and turned into a shit-flinging contest.

"I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process." -Benjamin Harrison

Just a post of thanks to the ladies of CERB. Maybe you don't hear it enough, but you provide a very unique and special service, one that does not compare to any other business or service or should be compared to any other business or service. You allow us men an escape, companionship, intimacy and in some cases friendship with no strings attached. You do require a donation, but the value of this escape has an intangible value far exceeding any donation you have asked for. Speaking for myself, you should know you are respected and appreciated And for the escapes and companionship you have provided, thank you RG

I apologize for this rant but I got to get it out. I was so upset and yet, I couldn't say anything without revelling my secret. I was driving with a full vehicle filled with my wife and in-laws. I'm not sure how the topic or conversation began but my wife said to her brother that he needed to get laid since he hadn't had sex in over a year and a half. Which I found hypocritical by her since she hasn't touched me in almost a year. Whatever I kept my mouth shut not to cause an argument. Then someone mentioned we should go to the strippers, then someone as a joke said will hire him a sp. well this is when the topic changed from how dirty and discussing this woman where. I immediately was offended by this false statement. I'm sorry but they woman who I've seen are way cleaner than his ex girlfriend. He had unprotected sex with his ex girlfriend while she was cheating and still had another boyfriend and the eventually did the same to him. I mean to have two kids both because you couldn't put a condom on what make you think she didn't do the same with the other boyfriends? Then to say he doesn't want pussy that everyone else had. Well by this point I was fuming because I couldn't say a word without looking to suspicious. Then someone mentioned std, so I though here my chance to ease the subject. This is where I said that is what condoms are for. It didn't help much as I was listening to all this negative remarks about some of the most wonderful ladies I've meet. So the only thing I could think if as no one was looking I braced my self and hit the brakes slightly hard swerving at the same time and made up a story of how this animal just darted across the road. I felt so bad not being able to say something. I would like to apologize to any lady that may of been offended. At the same time I've come to realize that it must really be hard for you lady to hear such bs and rude comments. This must happen frequently and I am truly sorry that people can judge you like this, especially from jerks who don't even know the precaution you girls take and the amount of time and effort you take to be clean for us gentleman. I am sorry all I could do was bite my tongue and couldn't defend you, without drawing to much suspicion to my secret. You woman are strong and please don't let any narrow minded persons get you down.

None of it has been debunked. Many of the posters have told you, repeatedly, that comparing sex work to other professions is a false analogy. At this point I'm convinced that you just want to be right--listening doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.

aHAHAHAHA... sorry, I'm just trying to imagine that conversation. GUY 1: "Hey, whatcha doin'?" GUY 2: "Playing Killzone 7... just came out." *pew pew boom* GUY 1: "Huh, cool." (pause) "Hey, you know what GUY 2? You should totally get out of here and go to a brothel." GUY 2: "WTF?" GUY 1: "Seriously. You've captured the other guy's flag, like, three times while I've been watching. Knock that off. You need some action." (pause) "At a brothel." GUY 2: "Dude, my girlfriend will be home in, like, an hour." GUY 1: "Look, here, take this..." *gives paper* "Just call this number and go to this address. Seriously. You should totally do it." GUY 2: "Uhhh...." LATER: GUY 2: "Dude! That was awesome!" GUY 1: "I told you! Now... make sure you go back several more times this week." GUY 2: "You know what? I'm totally doing that, because you've just convinced me that I should." HANDCUFFS: "Click!"

I think people are getting worried and making way too much of this walking past the front desk. For all the front desk staff know, you checked in when they were off shift. I have gone by the front desks of hotels many a time, including one where the front desk is more situated in a hallway you have to walk through to get to the elevators. I just walked by like I belonged there never questioned. Staff are used to seeing people come and go, even for a romantic rendezvous ;-) hey that's life. Just walk into the hotel like you belong there. The only way you'll get questioned is if you draw attention to yourself. If hotels started questioning everyone, guests and guests of guests, they'd soon be out of business RG

Do you honestly believe you've convinced anyone of anything? Most people understand that attempts to haggle with SPs don't generally go down well. I'll grant that you've managed to get one or two like-minded individuals to crawl out of the woodwork, but that seems to be the limit of your accomplishments thus far. If you believe you're winning, tell me... whose mind have you changed? I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time? Nope. You have debunked nothing, convinced nobody, achieved nothing save (probably) getting yourself on a few ladies' blacklists. I might ask the same of you, lipualipua. Go ahead. I'm all ears. Just to save you both clicking and scrolling, here's my original questions. You've already had all weekend to think about them. You can have as much longer as you like. But the longer you wait, and the more you fail to come up with any sort of coherent argument, the less likely you are to convince anyone.

My two cents... - I don't think haggling an SP is respectful or acceptable - I do understand that some SP's are more than happy to negotiate their rates/services, and that is completely fine. Each person is going to act according to their own values and comfort. If an SP has clearly stated that she is open to suggestions, then by all means take her up on the offer! However, after looking at many a website, I have noticed that an overwhelming number of them have CLEARLY stated that their rates are NEVER up for negotiation whatsoever, and the numbers based on meaghanmcleod's tallies speak for themselves (thanks for putting that together, by the way!) I understand that many people (specifically hobbyists) have mentioned that negotiation is a regular part of doing business, independent contractors especially. While I agree that it is a part of business, we are not talking about some intangible object or a 'regular' service based business. We are talking about a woman's body, mind and well-being here. Many of you hobbyists have no idea what being on the SP-side of this business is like; what kind of personal, mental and emotional tolls it can take. Yes a 'normal' job can cause distress and each have their own specific consequences, but sharing your body and your Self with your clients is a whole different ballgame. I don't mean to speak for *everyone* or speak in terms of absolutes here, either. Regardless of whether a woman has a solid self-esteem and sense of worth there are still many issues we have to deal with that a hobbyist does not. And while there are certain issues that the client deals with on their side of things (I'm definitely not saying you guys don't have to deal with risks or emotional issues of your own), I think you need to take into account that whatever issues you deal with as the client, ours are magnified a hundred times over. Our rates reflect (not necessarily all of these, but many) - Bodily maintenance like buying expensive lingerie, clothing, makeup as well as things like getting waxed, laser hair treatments, nails done, etc so we can look and feel our best for you... all of which are expensive and/or painful; Also frequent testing and risks of UTI's, yeast infections, etc from unhygienic clients or use of toys, all of which cost money and can be very painful and uncomfortable; - Costs to rent out/provide a space for you to come and enjoy us; - Touring costs; - Transportation costs; - Taking time off so we can heal, get our minds right, not be an object/living blow up doll for a while; **I'm not saying we all feel like this, or feel it all the time - but personally, there have definitely been moments** - Dealing with a hobbyists ignorant/mindless comments from time to time (I'd like to point out that the vast majority of you gentleman are great, respectful and a pleasure to work with, but the occasional asshat does appear and can make us feel dirty, ashamed or even scared for our lives) - The risk of being hurt physically, or even extreme cases where the woman is killed or sold. Honestly, how likely is it that an SP is going to have some kind of psychotic episode and physically hurt you? How many times have you heard of that happening? Yet how many thousands of women have died, been sold, been stalked, harassed, hurt or been in any kind of pain because of a client? - We take a huge risk in our personal lives for being stigmatised, called out, exposed, losing friendships/relationships and even family members; especially us providers that show our faces in our pictures. And I would also like to point out, for the people who are going to jump in and say "Well if she struggles with issues, she shouldn't be doing this job!!!" -- Okay, yes. There are people who aren't mentally/emotionally equipped for this job. And when the cons start outweighing the pros, that's when she should either take a break or retire. However - there are many women who are most definitely able to do this who have moments where they want to quit because we deal with a LOT. ALL the time. Regardless of whether a woman is able to handle this job or not, please recognize that we have a LOT more to deal with than the average person. Not to sound high-and-mighty or anything, but we do! So no... I don't think you should negotiate a woman's rates. Ever. If you think a rate is too high, find someone who offers their services for a lower rate. End of story. We take too many risks to be lowballed or haggled with by an opportunistic person who doesn't take into account all the things we go through and worry about so that we can be here doing what we do. Sorry if I sounded harsh, accusatory, or like a total whiner! I am not trying to come off as defensive or angry here; I just personally find it extremely insulting when people make comments about my rates as if I don't provide a great experience that isn't "worth" what I ask for it, or make me feel like they are doing me a favor by paying my asked price. Please!

I'll be there for sure!! :D as far as door prizes for the ladies.. these have been some nice ones in the past: gift cards for la Senza lingerie, LCBO etc... i also think that even something as simple as a gift card for Shoppers drugmart...you can buy ANYTHING there and they have a great fragrance and cosmetics section. :)

re: Haggling. The only time I've seen someone enjoy haggling is on the beaches or in markets of third world countries where people are hawking their wares. The first time I saw it I was uncomfortable.. then I got used to it.. but I never initiate a haggle.. I say no.. but if I look a bit wistful.. they inevitably start the process and I eventually get over my discomfort and a price is set that I can't refuse. Because let's face it.. this issue isn't about negotiation. I think we've clarified that what insults is the haggle. As a brand new unknown client you've got no position with which to negotiate. Even negotiation in the true sense of the word isn't something we look forward to unless like has been well pointed out there's also something to gain for us.. like a retainer client. Now within the sex industry.. haggling is what most of us associate with streetwalkers and pimps.. getting the quickest amount of money in the shortest amount of time for drugs. Not one woman will get herself excited to have you visit with her if you've successfully haggled her to a lower price. In fact most will blacklist you. BUT you who like to haggle won't care about that? You'll just go on to the next girl til you find one who will. That's okay! Doesn't mean because you found your 'gem' who is willing to haggle that it's something now to be admired.. for you not to be ridiculed. You still will be! If you say you can't afford a service and she offers to lower her price.. good for the 2 of you. I don't do that.. and most of the ladies I know don't either.. but hey good for you. Win/win. Believe me when I tell you though.. she would have been much happier if you paid her rate. Is she happy to have your business at all? Are things tough for her? Maybe and probably. It's still a win/win.. so there you go. Isn't that all you really wanted? (I"m speaking to hagglers only). You have the freedom. No-one is saying you don't. Meg was saying it was unacceptable to her. It's unacceptable to the large majority of us. Want that to change? It won't. You will be blacklisted.. the large majority of us find it distasteful, disrespectful and un-arousing. Is it going to educate a haggler not to be one? perhaps.. but doubtful. Most of us want clients who not only pay our rate.. but do so happily. My greatest clients are so grateful for our time spent together that they never bring up my rate even to say 'you're worth every penny'. You've got to remember.. you will always find someone in almost any line of work willing to haggle or negotiate with you if that's what you enjoy. BUT even someone selling a house can be offended by a low-ball offer. Never by a larger one.

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I've said this before, I have no fear of arrest, much less prosecution. I don't rip men off, do drugs, act wrong in a hotel lobby, or do car dates. I am under no illusions that I am on someone's radar, somewhere but I imagine the police & the courts have more important business to attend than me. Also, Cerb & many other sites have been around for quite some time. If we & our lifestyle were of paramount concern to those with powers of arrest & prosecution, it would have happened long ago. So I never worry about it. Sandi

I cannot believe this thread is still going on....I think a select few are really, really taking too much time away from their personal life, only to try and convince everyone should be on the same thinking page , when it is not going to happen..ever...so time to let this go. Need to release a little tension...Why not go and check out your local service provider schedules, choose a lady and book a date! So much more fun & rewarding...

One that does suffer in silence, does not educate others about the oldest profession. I have had numerous discussions with co-workers,contractors,friends,family members (bother) about seeking and being with SP's and the argument that what our public does not understand, and probably never will,unless they are educated. With the legal battle within the government now, some are reading about, some are simply sticking their heads in the sand and really can't be bothered by it. The old argument that "why would you?" Or "that is disgusting how can you" simply never holds water with myself as when I would rebut with "How could you have unprotected sex,with a lady you picked up at a bar" The argument is debated back and forth and in some cases, some see it my way while others, will never understand. The first step is those that need to learn is ask them, to read about it,watch some of the great TV documentary productions that show the actual business part of it. Most that have their heads in the sand about it, think of only street walkers and that is what they honestly believe, which is unfortunate. I understand that you were with family and your SO, and you wanted to avoid the situation, but just goes to show you how many around yourself really don't understand the oldest profession going. My nickel on the subject.

Now that's a newbie question that I will answer! Get a SpeakOut phone from 7-11. It should cost less than $100. Use it exclusively for pooning calls and texts. NEVER use your oersonal or business phone for pooning-related activities. When not using it for said activities, keep it turned off and hidden, preferably in your office if you have one. That way, if a lady is so indiscreet as to contact you unexpectedly, you still control things. (And, if she does, never see her or contact her again). Some ladies will book appointments via email. Again, NEVER use a oersonal or business email address for pooning. Set up a hotmail, gmail or Yahoo! anonymous account and use that exclusively for pooning. Good luck!

Finding out three of my closest friends were in a terrible car crash last night... and NO ONE was hurt. You wouldn't be able to believe that from the wreckage. But they are fine. Not a scratch. So thankful :)

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I have refrained, until now, from contributing since I am truly fortunate enough to be resting on my regular laurels. They don't barter & in contrast, my rates are no higher than they were a few years ago. Me happy, they happy! But I would like to add a few comments in respect to the whole thing. Firstly, negotiating, in & of itslef is not our bone of contention. I could give a rodent's rectum how another SP runs her business. If she is open to working her way to a mutually acceptable middle ground, who the hell am I to judge? Her life, her body, her standards, NOT mine. What makes me angry, as it does other ladies, is the self entitled belief that due to the specific industry in which we exist, attempts to not take NO for an answer are ignored. If I get an e-mail from a man who has clearly read my site that starts with, So & so only charges whatever, can you match it. I simply ignore them. The same with requests for things I don't do like greek, fetishes, what have you. Why? Because I am smart enough to know that if a guy I have never met won't accept, understand & respect my boundaries PRIOR to us meeting, what in the world would make me think he will take no for an answer when he has me alone in a room? Cause trust me, if some douche tries to stab my sphincter with his winkie, one of us will be coming out of that room in handcuffs, one on a stretcher. Guess what, HE will be the same person. So I simply do not entertain even the possibilty of that scenario. It is my BEST screening tool. I use it to avoid problems. Another: Threads like this. There are great men on Cerb, guys I would jump in a minute. And then there are the ones who boast about bartering, pushing boundaries, stealing a few kisses, " let's see how far I can go" "she advertises no CIM but I couldn't help it" & other charming rapist rhetoric. So let me inform you of something you may not know: WE TALK. About everything. And we don't just do it here. I myself am in 2 Canadian Ladies' Lounges, 2 in the U.S. 1 in the U.K 1 in Europe as I am fluent in French. And I talk. Because at the end of the day, while some men would love to believe that we are all catty, bitchy, competitive skanks who are at war with each other, this is an absolute fallacy. One generated in your own mind to justify that the reason your intended failed to respond to you has NOTHING to do with your online persona. Sorry to burst your bubble. It absolutley does. And it isn't only on CERB. We are everywhere. So you have your opinion, fair enough. Send those texts, e-mails, BBM's, make those calls & wonder why she doesn't answer. Because when 20+ ladies try to break it down as to why your behaviour is not cool, yet you persist in picking fly shit out of pepper to rationalize it, remember these words: WE aren't the only ones advertising. Sandi

- Your right (or left) hand: you had it since you were born. Spit in it and jerk off. It's always free.

I think any woman can be sexy regardless of her weight/height/hair color/skin color /etc. Everybody has different tastes in what they find physically attractive. As a younger man I felt almost ashamed that I was attracted to women with big sexy curves because all my friends and society in general said it was wrong. So at that time I would have maybe considered it a "fetish" or taboo because I thought it was abnormal. But as I've matured I've come to realize that I like what I like and that's OK! I've also realized that although I prefer a bigger girl, I can be attracted to women of all shapes and sizes because true sexual attraction comes from good chemistry! If you have good sexual chemistry, physical appearance goes out the window! So to your point I say that no, BBW loving is not a fetish but merely a preference that is completely normal. I find even the word fetish a little confusing as it often comes with a negative connotation when I believe that all sex between consenting adults is normal if you enjoy it. Just do what feels good!

"Big Beautiful Woman" (commonly abbreviated as BBW) is a euphemism for an obese woman and is frequently used in the context of fat fetishism The terms "Big Beautiful Women" and "BBW" were coined by Carole Shaw in 1979, when she launched BBW Magazine, a fashion and lifestyle magazine for "plus-size" women. (courtesy wilkipedia) As a SP with the specializing in BBW ,I was wondering whether Individuals who admire a BBW view the attraction as a Fetish or a natural lifestyle attraction. [/url]

is not acceptable! This isn't a flea market. Take the time to find out what options a lady offers (ie length of time and corresponding donations) and either book with her or continue your search! BTW "can you do x amount of time for x amount of donation?" is akin to negotiating!

I just want to underscore the importance of recognizing and staying within your own boundaries. If you're not comfortable with this scenario, there's no reason for you to go through with it. That said, many men come to us to explore or engage in things that just aren't available to them with other partners, or that they're nervous raising with them. Erotic play can take many, many forms but not everyone's comfort level or repertoire is the same.

I know that Miss Sophia won't tout her own horn, but I will. Her pics are real, and the only agency in Fredericton that I would ever rely on. If in doubt, ask away. Those of us that work here can let you know if the agency is legit or not. Even if you pm us, cause sometimes we can't publicly state here that an agency is bad news..... Good luck! xoxo

I have shot a fair bit of porn both here in Canada and in LA. Some of it (like the rest of life) I enjoyed and some I did not. What I mostly dislike about porn that differs from escorting is the extreme lighting that is needed on set.. it gets very very hot and you end up covered in sweat by the time the shoot is over. Also you need to get a good 10-15 min or more sometimes of each position rather than just going with the flow and enjoying yourself. Most partners on set I met 5 minutes before shooting. Most were great to work with... and I met some fantastic people who welcomed me with open arms to the industry before I had 'proven' myself.. so that was a really pleasant aspect. I loved my time in LA.. pornstar karaoke being my favorite weekly venue on a Tues night. Porn doesn't pay well compared to escorting now.. especially with the all the free downloading so I don't keep up with it much. Running my own porn site was way more work than it was worth so I don't do that either anymore. I've seen many sites come and go so other people in the industry have found the same thing but many keep trying. In order to make a living you really have to shoot content that is available new online every single day. The sites that still do well upload new content 3 times or more/day to keep their subscribers happy. I enjoy my escorting business more for that reason alone.. I can relax.. one-on-one or 2-on-one :) in the privacy of my big cool A/C room with my comfy king size bed.

I think what has some of the SPs on your case really bad is that you are assuming any SPs will negotiate their rates. Do not assume ANYTHING ever as assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME. Best response I give to your post is CHECK THEIR WEBSITES. If a lady states her rates are non-negotiable and you try to negotiate, don't expect to hear back from her. I think that was the whole point of this damn thread and somehow that got lost in the chaos. My rates are non-negotiable. I will not bend them, EVER. Does that mean I will black list anyone who inquires politely? NO. I'm not naive enough to think everyone wants to spend 3hrs reading up on me just to find out. Some guys do, great! I imagine, though, that if i was a guy....who's horny RIGHT NOW....I'm not about to go read 6 pages of a lady's etiquette guidelines before getting my dick wet. So based on that information, I see politely inquiring as to my rates should not be a faux-pas and although this comment might get me in trouble i'm going to say it anyways: I'm here for the customer, not just his money. I chose this profession to get laid and get paid. Seems to me some people chose this profession for money alone and it shows when you cannot answer a damn question to a potential client without saying "read my goddamn website u blacklisted fool". Just mho.... And I know comparing other businesses is frugal to many of you but, honestly, does McDonald's cut you off for asking how much a big mac sandwich is? Cause it is listed on their menu board, they shouldn't have to tell you....right? PFFFFFF...lmao! side note: For every guy who posted in this thread, there's 125 hobbyists (this is an estimation) who didn't post. Let's try and remember that. I have received many PMs regarding this thread, from people who happen to see things they way I do, however they don't post becuase of the negative and condescending reaction from those of you who feel it is necessary for us to see things your way, to make us change our ways and be more like you... I do not try to push my business tactics on other SPs, but some of them feel the need to tell me I am wrong in how I do things. Worry about yourselves and let me worry about me. Everyone will do things differently, and because some SPs do negotiate, men will try to. If you have a problem with the types of questions you deal with in this profession, perhaps you need to find other employment, might I suggest NOT in customer service. And as for the stats posted earlier in the thread... .... If you counted my vote as "YES to negotiating" you can change that. I am a NO, but I am also a NO to blacklisting a client for asking. That's where you and I saw things differently. Here's a little more accuracy for those "stats": # of SPs who didn't post for YES - unknown # of SPs who didn't post for NO - unknown # of Hobbyists who didn't post for YES - unknown # of hobbyists who didn't post for NO - unknown Add those numbers to your spreadsheet and let me know how that works out, equation wise. What you wanna do is take the # of posters for each side of the fence, and divide that by the number of CERB members. Then get at me with what percentage that was.

I couldn't agree more with what EvaAdore wrote in both of her posts. Of course, I adore Eva and would agree with anything she says! She's a smart cookie and first-rate provider. These women are giving us something precious, and at great personal risk to them. It's not like seeing a lawyer or an accountant. I must say I've been tempted to question rates, when for example the multi-hour rate is higher per hour than the single hour rate. Doesn't seem to make sense to me (I like long appointments) since it's a more efficient use of an SP's time to spend three hours with me than to have three one-hour appointments, with clean-up and transportation in between. I often think it's just bad math when some of these rate cards are set. But I haven't raised those questions out of respect for the woman. It's her body, and it's her business. And remember, you often get what you pay for. I'd rather have a higher rate with a lower-volume provider than be part of an assembly line approach.

I appreciate the thoughtful post. So nice to get a healthy response rather then an insult or a picture or some silly youtube video. People negotiate with lawyers all the time. I'm not sure why people keep using this example. It is so common its not funny. If you want to go through every service one by one I would be happy to do so. Lets do it one at a time.

These are interesting examples, but I don't think they "debunk" anything. Some of these examples when applied to the sex industry are like comparing apples to oranges. Others, might represent a negotiating opportunity, if they are properly understood in terms of the limited and specific application they have to the sex industry. My comments on each example are included below.

There are moments here where I read someone's comment on a thread, and it strikes me how profound those words are. Short, concise, and sweet. Basically, in the "N" thread, Cleo said probably the only thing of value there.

Dude, quit picking fights. There's some merit to your basic position, but others dont agree. As Cleo said, this is the Internet ... strongly suggest you give it a rest.

I spoke with 3 girls on Cerb last week who changed their rates after I told them I could not afford what they were asking... I did not start negotiating. I simply said, so how much for an hour, and after their reply I said, sorry, I can't afford that, have a great day... And their responses were: well what can you afford?

I don't provide things in writing, and would never write and text or email my address. I will give everything out in a phone call, as there is a clear precedent that phone conversations are fully legal and are not considered public solicitation. In fact if everyone stopped just saying 'solicitation' and remembered to say 'public solicitation' I imagine there would be less confusion about legalities and illegalities. The reality is that there is still an expectation of privacy when using text and emails, and there is no real good reason to not be able to provide information this way as the considering feature is that public has no expectation of privacy. The majority of police station computers have zero access to adult sites, that would be a number one reason why LE isn't just randomly checking in. When a few of us had to report an incident last year to the sex worker liason, much of it had to do with defamatory statements posted on online review sites. Part of the delay had to do with them not being able to access the links provided, and having to go thru some special requirements before they could view the material. Additional Comments: It's still a legal activity, the exchange of money for sexual services. i think the only issue that affects either client or sp is where that session actually takes place, as providing an incall is still illegal.

Disrespectful.

The SO and I completed our Emergency First Aid and CPR + C training course today. Now if one of us has a cardiac event, we won't need to rely on 911 getting out to the country within the golden 9 minute rule. Country residents have been known to die while waiting for emergency assistance. That and the fact that I couldn't live with the knowledge of my wife dying before my eyes and I did nothing to save her. At least now I've taken steps to preserve her life, and she mine. To me, that is more meaningful than Roses and a hundred Valentines cards.

Negotiating is one of my professional areas of expertise (large construction and/or service contracts, sponsorships, labour contracts etc.). Most (not all) of what is being described and discussed in this thread is better characterized as haggling or asking for a price discount, not true negotiation. Negotiation involves an exchange of interests, building a relationship for the future and multiple variables that can be grouped in different ways to create value for both parties. Sp services would be akin to personal/consulting services contracts. In these service contracts hourly rates are not negotiated. What is negotiated is how much time, effort and quality is expected in the service provided or product delivered. Even then, there is a service threshold below which a company will not go just to obtain revenue. This is because the quality of service will be below their standards and will affect their reputation and future business. With the exception of a Sugar Daddy arrangement, there doesn't seem to be much room for an sp to negotiate the quality and quantity of service while maintaining their service standards and hourly fee. Here are a few examples of discount, haggling and negotiating. Price Discount A price discount usually involves a percentage or flat fee discount off the usual price in an attempt to increase volume (e.g. summer specials, early bird discount). The seller sets the discount rate, announces its terms and the length of time it's available. Some sp's advertise these discounts. Others may provide price discounts if they have received a retainer (cash in advance) for multiple sessions. The client doesn't "negotiate" you pay the advertised special rate. Haggling Haggling works for sellers when there is no posted price or the posted price is higher than what they normally accept. The seller tries to get the maximum amount of money from each client. (Think Moroccan market). The client asks the price or offers an amount. The seller responds with a price which is higher than they were offered and is in fact higher than what they usually accept. Back and forth for a while. An unsophisticated client will pay more than others. So gentlemen, be careful what you ask for! In addition in an Internet age the various prices will get around and damage the sp's business. Some men will be upset they paid more than others, while others will now only pay the lowest price they've seen quoted by other clients. Haggling works for a purchaser when the price is fixed but there are overhead costs (e.g delivery, installation etc) which are built into the business and the seller has some flexibility to "negotiate " those costs. While sp's have overhead costs, there aren't a whole lot of flexible costs that they can discount, without it coming directly out of their purse. I suppose if you wanted to try their make up on, they might indulge that for no extra charge lol. But don't touch their shoes or stockings lol Forbes magazine describes haggling as short-sighted "Which is emotionally charged, combative... that leads to low-quality solutions and results in lose-lose outcomes." Negotiation Here's an example of defining the terms of a Sugar Daddy relationship which involves true negotiation, but which I don't believe can apply to a 30 minute to multi-hour appointment with an sp. A client approaches an sp about formalizing a Sugar Daddy relationship. They discuss whether it will be an exclusive relationship, the net income the sp expects to make, the frequency and type of services which will be provided. How much payment will be cash and how much will be Value in Kind (e.g. housing, grooming, clothes, travel etc). How much cash income does the sp need (car payments, tuition, entertainment etc.) Let's take one element, housing. Maybe the Sugar Daddy offers a high end condo that he owns to offset some of his cash fees to the sp. Maybe the sp doesn't want to move. Maybe if she moves, she wants a lease to guarantee a one year occupancy and 2 months notice in case the relationship doesn't work out. Maybe the Suggar Daddy wants to assign a $3000/month market value to the condo as part of his cash and Value in Kind offer. The sp responds that even if it's worth $3000, since she's only paying $1000 a month rent now, she can't afford to lose an additional $2000 income just to live in greater luxury. My point is that there's a complexity to "negotiations". There are lots of variables in play. Each party describes their interests, but they also try to understand the other party's interests and satisfy them. They also want to build a long term relationship with a win/win solution. Asking for a discount on a one hour session or offering the $200 bucks you've got is not negotiation. Personally Personally, although I'm very comfortable negotiating, I don't try to negotiate, haggle or ask for a discount from service providers. I understand, accept and appreciate that the service providers I see, and most of those posting in this thread, operate on a fixed price model which is common for most goods and services in North America. Just accept and respect that. On a lighter note... If you've made it this far. When I typed "Maybe the Sugar Daddy offers a high end condo" autocorrect changed "condo" to "condom" lol

Sorry I completely disagree here. This thread has gone on and on, and personally I am sickened by reading alot of what has been written here. I travel ALL across this country of ours and my donations are the same in every city and it is NEVER an issue (I dont offer discounts, not even on multi hours). When I have visited Kingston in the past, I never altered my rate and it was never a problem, so don't go telling these girls that they should change their donation to reflect the lower economic standing in a city, that is complete bullshit. The expenses are still the same regardless to where one travels to, so why would one cut there earning potential to travel somewhere? If you cant afford it save up, this a luxury not a necessity.

Everyone in porn does AIM testing, which is a special kind of testing that can detect HIV within 14 days of infection (regular testing can take up 6 months to show HIV) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Industry_Medical_Health_Care_Foundation Your test results contain either your passport or driver's license number as indentification, so that way when you're on set no one can use false papers that say they are clean. I had to go to Detroit to get mine done (was living in Windsor at the time), it was always very pricey (about 300$ a hit). Then they gave me my special papers to use on set. So in porn, it's much safer and I'm willing to to uncovered services as I know my partner is clean, whereas with escorting I'm a total safe GFE, as there is no way of knowing my partner status, and i'm not going to take chance. With porn, you also get a say in your partner, so you can pick someone you're attracted to. With escorting, the gent picks you, so you never know who you are going to see :) It's alot of work and usually is many takes before you get the shot. I always laugh when i watch porn as i can tell when she's into it and when she's like "omg get the shot already i had enough" or " im really not feeling it but i need get paid so OH OH OH" Porn is fun lol but another world completely................

Convincing someone to leave their residence (where it's legal to see a prostitute) and go to a brothel (where it's not legal to see a prostitute) is a crime. If someone is going to commit an illegal act, he's not entitled to attempt to convince, pressure or inveigle someone else to do it, too. I don't think this is the same thing as writing a recommendation on a review board. Recommendations are written by anonymous individuals for many reasons. It is impossible to know whether any of the things the writer describes actually took place or whether his description of events is accurate. It's also impossible to know whether the writer actually saw the person he appears to be reviewing, or not. The review may be written by someone anxious to gain credibility on a board. On some boards, a man can be an unpaid member if and only if he contributes reviews, otherwise he has to pay a membership fee. That gives rise to an enormous number of fake reviews from men who want to save a few dollars so that they can read the rest of the content on the board. That's important: readers of these reviews actively choose to find and read them. In many respects, reviews are a form of advertising that clients engage in for escorts. And so, given that the writers are anonymous and often extremely difficult to trace, and given that participation in or readership of these boards is a voluntary choice, I don't think there's anything to worry about most of the time. "Most of the time" excludes making threats, divulging private information and other such things that could reasonably compromise an escort's safety and well-being. I don't think it would be a good idea to try doing anything like that and expect to get away with it!

Quite frankly, if you have to haggle over 20 dollars, maybe you should consider that you can't afford to see escorts.

What makes you think they don't look at this site? I know for a fact they do as I have spoken with police in the past in regards to the site. In fact a very nice lady police investigator contacted us not too long ago asking for assistance in a case. Now, your new so I suspect you think prostitution is illegal right? We watch a lot of american TV and prostitution in Canada (unlike MOST of the USA) is very much legal here. In canada streetwalking (public solicitation), brothels (common bawdy houses) and pimping/procuring is illegal. The actual exchange for money for sex in private is very much legal and since a website is not considered a PUBLIC PLACE discussing and advertising such activities in classified ads and online is NOT illegal. We do not allow discussions of illegal nature here. Included on this list is - streetwalkers - FS massage spa's - public brothels - sex in public (including "Car dates") - underage (18 is the legal age) - drugs - pimping and so on... Hope that helps

You guys can argue this stuff until you're blue in the face but it doesn't change the reality on the ground. Ever heard the saying, "I don't make the world. I just try to live in it."? Wanna try to negotiate rates? Go for it. Be aware though that the consequence is that many of the better ladies here will IMMEDIATELY blacklist you and never see you just for bringing it up. Hope that $20 you were trying to save was worth it. I'll even go you one better. I would bet dimes to donuts that you guys are ALREADY in some ladies blacklists just for having this discussion. It shows a certain level of tastelessness and low class that I expect many of these ladies are not interested in experiencing. But hey, good luck with your bargain hunting. More ladies for me.

I personally don't like all these acronyms. When I book an encounter with a lady it is because there is something about her that is beautiful and attractive and makes me want to meet her. To label attraction to "gulp" (I hate using the acronym) a BBW as a fetish is insulting and dehumanizing to a woman. What is more accurate is that a man is attracted to a woman...PERIOD!!! Personally I have been and am attracted to women of all shapes, sizes and ages, because there has/is something about each and every one of them that is attractive and beautiful A rambling from a BUM (big ugly man LOL) RG

Well, if we were flexible like some four legged mammals, that would make life easier. Just think what life would be like if you could lick your balls, or go even further and suck your own dick? This would of couse work for the ladies too(no dick tho)! I know it may sound a bit sick, but would it sound that way if we could all do that? I think not!!

If understanding your needs or desire and taking the courage to do something about it is shameful then I don't know what isn't? The only person that can make you feel ashamed is yourself, because what other people may think, shouldn't matter. This is your life and you decide what you want to do.