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Not sure if this has been posted BUT it is important. This is the actual process of how a bill becomes law in Canada. http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/House/compendium/web-content/c_g_legislativeprocess-e.htm So when you are fretting about Bill SeeDirtySex (C36) remember what was tabled on Wednesday is like a piece of cloth before it gets tailored into a suit. IT IS NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT. An all party committee will scrutinize the living shit out of the current bill. You can bet that more than one member will PUBLICLY suggest that the bill is absolutely contrary to the SCC decision and will suggest sending the bill or parts thereof to the SCC as a series of test questions. You know how the SCC has ruled - in unanimity. What can you do in the interim? Contact your MP. Demand a written response. Organize. Organize. Organize. If you are a part of a SW organization, enlist the support of human rights organizations. Have THEM speak on your behalf in concert with your own voice. Find SW friendly artists, authors, educators and other persons of note to advocate for you. Get Elizabeth May on board. Get the NDP on board. Get the Liberals on board. Don't get sidetracked on side issues. No tangents. You want to gain support NOT alienate. This bill affects both sexes. In the resounding words of Pierre Elliot Trudeau - "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation." That was nearly 50 years ago. Let's NOT go backwards. Just some food for thought.

I'm going to say it. STUPIDITY. Especially this week. There are far too many people speaking from an opening that is not their mouth... and most of those are the doom and gloomers. Think of solutions. When you give up and publicly announce that there is no hope, you become part of the problem. So... if you have given up hope, please... ummm... shut the fuck up. Your "sky is falling" bullshit is NOT HELPING.

In the "old" days when there we just yellow page ads and newspaper print ads, nothing explicit was advertised or discussed over the phone. We managed then and we will adapt. The sky is not falling.

This sounds just like the old days except for the texting part. LOL! When I first started as an SP, the ladies did NOT speak about sexual services on the phone ( acronyms did not exist), no one negotiated, there was none of this 15 minute b.s. or "How much for just a bj?" The client paid the rate for "time and companionship" which was reiterated over and over to each client. The client anticipated a good time. If they didn't, they never called back to repeat with that particular SP. The lady showed up, she didn't touch the envelope until some sort of sexual advance was made by either her or the client. That's how you knew neither was LE. The laws were consdiered a grey area back then and during this time in Ottawa, incalls were not a popular choice among SPs. If they did offer them, it was with established regulars. As years passed, SPs and clients alike became more courageous because they knew LE weren't enforcing the laws if you kept your head down and flew under the radar. The industry changed and kept evolving and business carried on. This is how it was always done in the early days ( before the internet and when the internet was in its infancy with escort industry sites) and this is the way it will have to be done again. If certain laws are passed especially regarding bawdy houses and making sure no one under the age of 18 is or could be present, the question will be how far LE will go to enforce such laws if passed? Will they have the budget to do it? It will be interesting to see how it plays out and how far they will go to prosecute. As Forunateone pointed out, they will go after the easiest targets and that's sexworkers who are on the streets.

I suppose it's not really a perfect comparison, but I thought this quite a clever article from The Globe and Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/columnists/dont-piano-teachers-deserve-the-same-protection-as-prostitutes/article19043328/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-what-canadas/article19018150/?cmpid=rss1&google_editors_picks=true

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISinfo/Faq....E&Mode=1#ID0EQ

Not at all, but our ads and enquiry style is dramatically different. Your INDY traveling lady will do well, as a stationary service like mine will have more pressure to be sure never to incriminate clients( or my own ads), for this, all my enquiries will be " I do not charge for sexual services" . Men get used to using your imagination and do not incriminate yourselves by asking for activities, IE: BBBJ, daty...especially with new ladies!!!! Once in your are alone and indoors, then there is no way of proving what is or is not done. This advice is straight from my lawyer.

The Harper government.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1183056-an-act-to-amend-the-criminal-code-in-response-to.html It's bad guys. Really bad.

Assuming that this bill may be reality, I want to talk to our NB men about how an enquiry will look like, as we will not advertise sexual services. Let's pretend we are txting... Gent txt: Hey baby, can I book a GFE and do you offer BBJ? Lady txt: No hun, I only accept donations for time spent. I do not charge for sexual activities at all. Gent txt : But do you do BBJ? Lady txt: I do not charge for sexual activities. or ... Gent txt: can I book a massage, do I get a HJ too? lady txt: I book massages yes. I do not charge for sexual activities. So, IF this bill becomes law, Gent's are going to have to book blindly and visit with the hopes all of your hopes will be fulfilled. As no lady will be able to admit in any way to any sexual activity. This will apply to phone calls, email and txt. Our ads will be stating " time spent". This sucks! But I am just wanting to get in the mind set that this just may be our reality:( It is going to be hard at first, but all things it will become easier. Hopefully we can rally together somehow and change this eventually. I am still hopeful though...

If in fact we disagree with the proposed legislation Bill 36, then it is incumbent upon us to do what we can to prevent its passage or to have it significantly amended. As many have mentioned, quite correctly, there is a long way to go before it becomes the law of the land. In the meantime as Charlotte indicated in her response in this thread, "Women Will Die," there ARE actions that we all can take. We must follow process and procedure. This afternoon I sent the following email to Mr. Mulcair, leader of the NDP, Mr. Trudeau, leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, Mr Jean-Francois Fortin, interiim leader of the Bloc Quebecois, and to Ms. Elizabeth May, leader of the Green Party of Canada. Mr. Mulcair, I am writing with regard to the recently introduced proposed legislation, Bill C36. I am very distressed over this legislation on a multitude of different levels. I am hoping that you and your party will do everything in your power to either defeat this legislation or at a minimum try to have it referred to the Supreme Court prior to its debate in Parliament. My concerns are in many areas, however there are two that I shall mention primarily. 1. The Bedford decision overturned laws as being unconstitutional on the grounds that they cause potential harm and increase the threat to the safety of women engaged as sex workers. I believe that the INTENT of the unanimous decision was to protect sex workers by providing for safer conditions under which they can work. If passed, the newly introduced legislation will in reality drive the industry further underground and I believe that it will increase the danger and threat to many women who work in this industry. This applies in particular, but not solely, to street workers. 2. The Supreme Court of Canada should be inviolate. At times they may make decisions with which we do not agree, however, their status and their decisions should be regarded with the utmost respect. THAT is a cornerstone of our constitution and way of government. With this legislation, the present government is ignoring the Court and blatantly refusing to accept the sanctity of its decisions. This legislation is not about the safety of sex workers, but rather it is about the present government putting itself above the highest authority in the land. I trust that you will consider this issue very carefully and work not only to help stop violence against women, but also support the decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada. With Respect, My Real Name I have yet to decide whether to write a similar but adapted letter to Mr. Harper. Truthfully, I feel it would not help a bit. Over the past few years I have invested a great deal of money into seeing SP's and if I can do that then I can help to support sex worker organizations. I shall be making a monthly donation, probably to P.O.W.E.R., to help support them as they work against this legislation. I REALLY do not want to wait years for the whole thing to work its way through the Supreme Court once again. Once it is proclaimed as law, that will be what will happen. Do what you can do comfortably, but do it now. MN2

We may be perverts but we're not crooks so we don't qualify for politics.

The Cloth has too many rips and tears in it. It's impossible to make a Suit out of it.

Exactly. I made lots of bookings via the newspaper and yellow pages, before the internet came out and in most cases had a great time.

In reading even through just the first few pages of this, I am shocked. Forgive me for being an outsider of this country, but just because we offer a service that is obviously being asked for, does that make me exploited? Hell no! Who in hell in government thinks it's right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their bodies, let alone their time! In the States, it's hard to get around the laws, THIS is worse! I believe in protecting those that are forced into this, but there are those of us that do this strictly because we enjoy the interaction between two people. If I go into a bar and a guy buys me dinner and drinks, we go back to his/my place and we end up having sex, does that mean I'm going to be subject to a criminal act because he put out money for the dinner and drinks? Man, this could be horrendous on so many levels! To me, this is just a case for a government to tell its citizens what they can and can't do. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a companion. It's my 'employment', I'm a self employed companion, you pay me for my time with you and if we happen to have some fun along the way, so be it! Does this mean that if a 'personal assistant' has sex with her boss, he and/or she can have criminal charges laid upon them, due to the fact that she's being paid by him? Holy crap man, this is the 21st century, why don't they just tax us all and get it over with!

The bill needs to pass through several steps in the House of Commons, then again more steps in the Senate. No need for disaster planning just yet ;)

Being a born & true Newfoundlander, "darlin" and "hun" are a part of my vocabulary and are terms of endearment. If a client has moved to the darlin and hun stage then it means my time with him or her has been both pleasurable and fulfilling. Another term I use is "my dear" and once again it is truly meant as an endearment. I never call strangers by these terms and never to anyone I do not feel a connection with.

I've been a member on here for a couple years now and as you can see have not posted many times, however have gained some valuable information in my decisions of who to see and who to avoid. It's really a shame that some of the SP's on here are being treated in a way that is so disrespectful to the point of them saying that they are "retiring" because of a few hacks that just don't get the message. Move on. Say what you will but I have seen Shannon many many many times and enjoyed every minute with her even while she was "retired" and will continue to see her and treat her and all other Sp's with the respect that they deserve.

...has CERB been able to maintain such a positive and respectful vibe? I have been a member for very short time, but every time I come to the board and read ANY thread, it is always comforting and refreshing to know that there are a lot of good people in this industry (from both sides) who are genuine and caring. It is a breath of fresh air to get such a positive energy from people who I don't even know, and who are thousands of miles away from me. It is nice to see a lot of men have a deeper level of compassion and understanding for SPs; to see that tolerance and respect can really make a difference in the industry, it's truly inspiriting. Seeing the dynamics n this board make me see a bigger picture... If every human being could follow very simple and basic rules the world could be a better place, and that we don't always have to agree, but we can also agree to disagree respectfully. Anyway, I just wanted to acknowledge CERB, and all its members especially, the mods who are the ones keeping the order and integrity of the board. Thank you!

It's tricky to know just how to answer this, since it depends so much on how you interpret the question, or which part you focus on. If we're talking about the physical interaction, then naturally the preference is for someone to be authentic and in the moment, rather than just obviously going through the motions. But expectations have to be realistic. I mean, if a lady is feeling tired or has a headache, does anyone what to be authentically told at the end of an encounter that she'd rather have had a nap than have spent time with you? Is a lady who hides that fact and ensures you leave feeling good about yourself being professional or being inauthentic? If we're talking more about her personality (or persona), then that depends too. Much like the open letter Regent recently penned to hobbyists, if you're racist, sexist, or homophobic, I'm much happier if you keep that part of yourself to yourself. But generally speaking, I think it's probably better to present yourself as who you truly are, if only because it's exhausting to pretend otherwise. There's enough variety out there that it seems to me like it would be simpler to be who you are, and so attract the people that you appeal to. It's worth pointing out that being authentic doesn't necessarily mean revealing all of yourself. We all have layers and we all act differently for different audiences. This isn't deception; it's life! It's possible that a person can present one side of themselves on Cerb or in the bedroom, and another side of themselves when alone or with friends, etc. That doesn't mean that how they choose to act here isn't authentic.

In my opinion authentic trumps artifice every time. However, there is a place for subtle fakery. What if the provider is not in the best mood? What if she or he is slightly irritable? Should the client be exposed to the genuine mental & emotional state of the moment when the expectation is for a drama-free-getaway-from-it-all romp? I think as a quality service provider, presenting yourself as a projection of the client's expectations would be as much a part of the pre-date preparation as doing hair & make-up. That is not to say that a provider completely sublimates their own personality to be a play thing for the client, but rather a provider would strive to present the best themself they can be, despite real life circumstances. As with all things, it boils down to a matter of degree. I would expect my play date to be happy to see me, but I would not want forced or faked physical responses. The quickest way to ensure I will never repeat is to fake it when we are intimate. My longest lasting relationships with providers have all been with genuinely authentic personalities. I think I'm a fair judge of authenticity, in fact I think most people know instinctively when something does not ring true. Repeat encounters reinforce realness, as consistency comes into play. Over time the real personality begins to show, just like in the Real World or Big Brother. It may take more than a few visits, but in time even the most gifted faker will give themselves away. But even with my acute sence of veracity, I can be fooled. In the end we all believe what we want to believe. And yes, I want to believe that an attractive woman half my age finds me sexy. It is just better if the attraction is real.

I have a letter to my MP mostly composed. I'll post it here when it is finished. One of the things I was going to request was that she back a proposal to have the SCC take a look at the law prior to passage or, if rammed through, have the SCC suspend the law until it could be reviewed. And then guess what what I ran across: Refer prostitution bill to Supreme Court 'immediately,' NDP says and Update on Canadian Whistleblower Edgar Schmidt Yes, the articles are related. Hmm...

By being here or writing reviews after the Nordic model comes to pass

Emails and relaxing with a Caesar :)

The view from the 58th floor of the Shangri-La....

At first when I started to visit Cerb ladies I was nervous now I would describe it as being excited, from the time I book my visit till well after I leave. When this excitement stops that is when I stop.

opening the curtains and seeing the sun shining :) That's my highlight for now...it's early...im sure many more to come :) BJ

I do not think so, MODS are pretty clever ppl and outfitted with company lawyers I am sure. If you notice the bill say " advertising sexual services" so if our ads are merely saying " hey come spend time with me" and there no mention of GFE etc...then I do not see how sites or the SP's or hobbyist having any reason to get in trouble, as long as communication on services only happen once you meet face to face. As I pointed out on my first post. I am not a fourtian teller, although would be nice to be, lol..but this is how I am seeing it go. Like it was in the past. I think we will still have this site, but just modified a bit.

Likely because the actual results contravene their spin on them.

That was exactly my thought...How many of these goverment members have already seen a provider...and still do... BJ

There was the Supreme Court decision that repealed the laws. There was lots of talk. There was discussion. There was supposed consultation. Now there is a proposed law. Talk is cheap and its easy to be upset, to criticize, to vent and to rant, and many of us have done this in the last 24 hours either in print or with each other or just silently to ourselves. The real question at the moment is, "Where from here?" If we choose to be like the proverbial ostrich that hides its head in the sand then perhaps what we see is what we get? Last evening I heard an interview with Emily Symons who was representing P.O.W.E.R., an organization of/for sex workers in Ottawa. She did a fantastic job of expressing many common thoughts that most of us here probably support. I refer to P.O.W.E.R because one side of the equation may well be the need for a sex workers united front and I am wondering if P.O.W.E.R. is that organization? I have been negligent in not becoming familiar with these organizations because they may become one of the ways that this legislation can be fought. In order to fight this legislation prior to its being passed and then ultimately having to go through years of court battles all the way to the Supreme Court is there a way to do so right now? Emotion is good but what will be required is patience and a willingness to follow process and procedure, as slow and as painful as that may be. I titled this thread, " Women Will Die," because those are the words that Ms. Symons used last evening as did one other researcher who was interviewed. If there were such a thing as a PR campaign, those words as a focal point may carry a lot more weight than words saying, "Legalize prostitution." Why this thread? It is because I want to help and I don't know how. There are many men who really cannot be visible for personal reasons. Would I want to be publicly visible, probably not, but would I if I felt it would make a REAL difference, probably. However you can help, man or woman, client or sex worker, this is the time to step up. What is the best way? Thoughts? Suggestions?

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I'm all with you, Kathryn, and my donation will go to POWER of Ottawa and Pivot Legal Society.

Peter MacKay

The ladies should be happy....Peter MacKay is trying to save you and retrain you to get out of prostitution...he cares (detect my sarcastic voice here) But me and other men...just a bunch of pervs Pissed off...saw PM press conference...not happy at all RG

I don't think you have anything to worry about just yet. The bill has to pass through Parliament & then Senate so it's not a done deal. I think the constitutionality of a new bill (especially this one) will be under the microscope. LE probably don't make any investigative moves retroactively prior to new law being enacted. They would be chasing their tails trying to prove criminal activity before something is actually considered a criminal offense. They also have to decide how to enforce new law. Will they use this forum as a tracker tool - they probably already do but so what?.... How many Senators (remember Wilbur Keon?), Ministers, Politicians, Backroom boys are clients themselves? What do you wanna bet those guys are gonna be chewing their nails about keeping their jobs if they pass an unpopular or stupidly draconian bill.

No more than a gentleman writing a recommendation now about a lady he saw at her incall which is technically illegal Or ads for escort agencies...I'm no lawyer but I believe illegal (living off the avails) Whether it's current law or new law, don't expect the police all of a sudden to be extra motivated to go after anyone in this lifestyle, be it companion or lady The new law is merely a political response to the SCC decision If it's going to be a new law enforcement priority, then expect the government (federal, provincial and municipal) to increase spending to give to police departments the resources needed to enforce the new laws. If they didn't see it as a priority before, don't count on it as a priority now Just my opinion RG

Since recently turning 60 this is a question I've pondered. Both Helen Mirren and Susan Sarandon blow this out of the water but I'm neither lol. Am I sexy to some one in their 20's, certainly not in the real world and unlikely in this one too. So I do shy away from the youngins for sure. I'm old guy fit, quick to smile, an interested listener with a young and positive attitude and a twinkle in my eye. I appreciate this might be sexy to some......but not all Peace MG

well I'm sure I'm not the only lady who finds maturity in a man sexy! I know for me, younger men (under 30) just aren't my preference, that's why I have an age limit mentioned on my website. It's not the look of the older man I find irresistible, although that's often very appealing. The qualities that appeal to me are most often found in a mature man. Charisma, confidence, maturity, passion, chivalry, a positive attitude... younger men possess them of course, but not usually all of them.

I agree, when I was younger I had by most standards, what would physically be considered sexy, all anyone would want, but not much confidence. Hanging with the wrong people, listening to negativity and believing it, not much familial support and rather disconnected parents. All that can affect a positive outlook on oneself and create a lack of confidence. But as I've grown older, learned, understood, changed who I choose to associate with and who and what I listen to, I've become much more confident and at times, lol, to much so. But we all do what we have to do to protect ourselves. I certainly feel sorry for those who are young and growing in this decade of instant contact, online bulling, societal pressures, media bullshit, peer pressures, etc. If you are not a strongly grounded, centered and well parented youth, boy will you have a long hard road.

I think that media and advertising plays as big a role as it always has. We are force fed certain standards every day and sometimes, whether we want it to or not, it sinks into our thought patterns and we slowly start thinking a different way. It takes effort to think your own thoughts in this electronic age. Not only that but I think when we're young, we view older in REALLY skewed ways so when we GET to older, we remember those comments. On top of that because we're human, our bodies start doing things they never did before and behaving differently and looking differently. At that point, many people have to deal with the whole ego shift and it can be a hard effort that weakens us to all the stuff we're inundated with. It's then that we think, maybe it IS better or if I had that I would be better. PS. In regard to Mrrnice's comments, there seems to be a gender specific thing I see a lot where woman are more accepting or maturity and aging in men then men are in woman. As always, there are exceptions, this is just a trend I have personally seen and experienced. There are so many facets to beauty, sex, aging, youth and they all have impact. I would love to see the real goal be to see beauty and sexy in everyone regardless of age, sex, race etc. It is a real gift and I'm very thankful to be blessed with it. Sexy to me is more than an outward appearance. It's personality, playfulness, the curve of a body that's normally hidden, the twinkle in an eye, the teasing smile or deepness of a laugh. NO, there is no age limit on sexy or beautiful, there is sometimes an age limit on mental ability to be accepting and open. I hope never to find that one! In response to Mrrnice...I do believe there is a gender issue, and I comment from personal experience and observation, that women are more accepting of maturity and aging in men then men are in woman. Always exceptions of course.

Totally agree with you Delilah, have seen it more times that I'd like and just recently read an example of what you are saying :( http://www.danoah.com/2010/09/you-just-broke-your-child.html

I think it's one thing: do you genuinely enjoy giving and receiving pleasure. If you do, and you're active/engaged in the session, most men will love being with you.

+1 for authentic. I fully recognize that "authentic" is itself variable. But in general, I enjoy the time in a session that involves conversing and getting to know the person. If the lady's personality has not been accurately portrayed before hand then the experience is not as enjoyable. I'm drawn to ads that seem to provide insight into the individual. Of course, I fully expect that any advertising may include a certain degree of exaggeration. After all, that is marketing, but in general truth in advertising is generally a good strategy.

Just to add another thought here... The subject here has a lot to do with my personal, in particular the lack thereof, relationships in life. I'm very much a loner outside of a very small circle of friends and family, and this is largely because I've met so many who just aren't genuine. It's impossible to develop any type of relationship when that happens. So many seem to have their own agenda in life and tailor their interactions around that: "How do I need to act today, who do I need to be today, to get what I want?" That doesn't work for me. If I need to be someone I'm not to reach some goal, then that's a pretty hollow existence. And, I've given up on what many would think "a lot" by living that way, I think. I kinda expanded on the topic a bit and rambled (sorry Savannah) and could probable ramble more as it's a "grey" topic and not black and white, but to answer your question: Yes, while not always, I can usually spot the difference.

For a client to expect a lady to be fully, well as open as she can be, that is a reciprocal relationship, requiring the client to be open with the lady too. That comes over time, and with mutual trust and respect. I do prefer a lady to be herself, but on a first, even second meeting, to expect a lady to show all herself (is that the right way to phrase it) is unreasonable. Likewise I'm not going to show all myself to a lady on a first or even second encounter. But I want the lady to be herself, personality wise when I see her. I can glean what her personality is through her website, posts on CERB, emails and so on. I assume she can get an idea of what my personality is the same way (well except I have no website) But still we are all somewhat guarded, we don't completely open up. Now when you start getting to the third encounter on, that's when, at least in my experience, the dynamic changes between the two of you, and you both start being more open than is required in a SP/Client relationship. Your relationship for lack of a better word starts evolving into more of a friendship. I don't know if that answers your question A rambling RG

Hey CrazyinHali. Justice looks perfect. Thanks for the recommendation. I hope our schedules are in sync for my visit. Any other suggestions?

I've tried to organize such events with two lovely SP who offer it and I had no to few guys participants. It seems like guys fantasize about it but are never available when efforts are made to organize one. Keep your eyed peeled, some are announced from time to time. Cheers