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This is all so sad to read. If someone around me at work, at school, in my circle of friends etc etc, ever explicitly talked about how they would use chloroform to knock me out and then rape me, I certainly hope that someone would speak up and tell me about it. I think a females right to work and learn in a safe environment outweighs a males right to privacy. However, this should not be a women vs men issue. It should be an issue of respect. Clearly their is no respect here. A lot of you also refer to their comments as jokes. That's ridiculous. Condoning the 'hilarity' of such 'jokes' is just as bad as making them yourself. It saddens me. A lot of people also talk about how these "boys" careers shouldn't be ruined. Firstly, do you realize most of them are in their 30's? They are not children. They are supposedly men. Secondly, if these comments had been made by anyone towards anyone in any place of work in any of the 1st world countries, there would be absolutely no question as to the disciplinary action that would take place. It goes by the term 'Respectful Workplace', where harassment of any form is not tolerated. Why does this not exist in the educational setting? Perhaps it does, but I must say that being in graduate school at the same University, I have not been exposed to it. It must be one of those things that they don't actually teach you about. One of the group is a friend of mine. I've known him for years. I remember how hard he struggled to get accepted (the class is very small), but how with his determination and drive he finally got in. I remember talking to him a couple of months ago about how excited he was to finally be done. BUT, although he is a 'friend' (I use that term loosely now), I don't think he should be given the power of being able to anesthetize ladies. And yes 'Assistants' are always present... supposedly... but who's to say both of them do not have these fantasies.... A scary thought as I write this, is now I wonder if even if they are expelled, are they qualified to be these 'assistants'?? I'm sorry OldBlueEyes, but your comments have deeply disturbed me. Although I am sure that 95% of guys think about sex with a coworker / friend / whatever... There is, however, a much smaller percentage that fantasize about drugging her and raping her limp body in a violent fashion. And yes... if a classmate or a coworker made those comments about me, I would consider myself a victim. I do not need to live in any more fear than that that is already present for every woman... Having respect for women, children, and everyone around you does not emasculate a man.

Yes of course lack of visiting ladies is a theme across Canada. , I tour extensively and if I visit a city with cancellations and no shows, guess what ? I won't return . Gentlemen invite and coax ladies to tour their city and we answer your call. Many times we spend a lot of money to visit your city only to be told wrong location, is not good for them or just to busy to visit. I understand that every gent has his taste and I realize I may not be for everyone. However when several of my friends from every age group and demographic report the same I feel there is a problem. To those poor gents that have booked with ladies that were a no show or worse I offer my sympathies. The only advice I can offer is ask your fellow \Cerb members and make the best decision you feel is intelligent.

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I don't have much to say on the rights and wrongs of this that hasn't already been said. However, if you'll permit me a slight digression... this illustrates two things that I find interesting, both of which are a product of the increasingly interconnected world we live in. The first is the permanence of everything. I have no doubt that douchebag guys have been having conversations like this since time immemorial, but until very recently they'd have been just that - conversations. Even if they were overheard and reported to others by someone, they could just be denied and nothing could ever be proven. But now... much social intercourse occurs online, and what happens online tends to be a lot more permanent and provable than many people think. And this means that people can't get away with things that could have escaped unremarked and unpunished even a few years ago. The second is the ever-increasing speed of social change. Look at how long it took for racism to go from the idea that it might not be OK, to the point where it had become socially unacceptable in polite society. Then look at the speed of the same transition for homophobia (quicker, I think), and in more recent years - or even months - the increased awareness of trans folks and the discrimination they face, and the kind of thing we're talking about here. It's becoming ever-easier for those who wish to speak out to do so, to find support, and to get the message out to the world that the assumptions people make and the things that people do without thinking very hard about it actually do real harm to real people. We live in interesting times!

You keep talking about a lynching...what lynching??? The Dalhousie Code Of Student Conduct http://www.dal.ca/dept/university_secretariat/policies/student-life/code-of-student-conduct.html Take a look at the PDF document, specifically Offences Against Person. Clearly what these thirteen men did constitute at a minimum sexual harassment, threats of sexual assaults, harassment based on sex just to name a few. A lynching, give me a break. From the Merriam Webster Dictionary "to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction" What is happening here hardly rises to the level of a lynching. Not even in the same ballpark. In fact using the term is beyond insulting to the memories of those who really were lynched RG

If you are in compliance with the lady's requirements and do not overstep boundaries (asking too many personal questions, sharing too many personal stories with her where she might not feel comfortable, insisting on off-the-clock extended conversing/texting or email, trying to stay over-time or enticing her to stay over time or meet off the clock for free, etc.) there is no reason why you should feel you are taking advantage of her. If you are getting a certain level of intimacy and other stimulation met through the time you spend with an SP without any unrealistic expectations, then I'd say you have a good arrangement. If you feel you are not totally satisfied and crave more, then you might be putting unrealistic expectations on the client/SP relationship. I understand some men do not want to pursue a dating relationship because for whatever reason they don't want the commitment that goes along with it. But you can't expect an SP no matter how gracious she is or how well you connect and get along with her, to give you access to her personal life, or her heart so to speak. Just because we are being paid does not mean we are there just for the money, but I would never want a client to think or expect it may develop into anything more. In some instances, a client and SP may click in the romance department and end up together as a couple, but it's not realistic for a client to see SPs hoping that will happen for him. I am not suggesting that is what you are doing, I'm just putting it out there, that if you think you are taking advantage of someone, ask yourself what you are doing that is perhaps making you feel guilty. I suggest you do a self-check, and if necessary, ask a provider you have been with who you trust who has the maturity to be honest and ask them if there is anything they have observed in your approach or behaviour that might be off putting. Little things that might not seem like such a big deal can something make others feel uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it can't be corrected.

It kind of funny that someone could argue a breach of privacy based on such a flimsy argument of an agreement to join a private facebook group but want to ignore a written policy of the university (code of employee conduct) that they consented to when then applied to attend the university. Kinda self serving to only want to apply agreements that are in your favor. If they did not want to be held accountable under the code they should have not studied at the university. This dummies went a step further and implicated the university in their stupidity by naming the group as they did. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

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After a long and hot day...heading out for a late night Vietnamese coffee in Saigon.

Your mileage may vary, as they say. To return to the original point of this thread... quite apart from the money issue, remember that when you pay to see Alotta Fagina, what you're getting is... what you want (or at least, what she thinks you want). It's not that what you see is fake or unreal, necessarily, but... Alotta won't spend the first half-hour with you unloading about the horrible morning she had, even if she did. She won't say she's tired and she'd rather not, even if that's the case. She won't bring you her problems, because that's not what you're there for. So, when you're thinking about what you feel about her, remember that behind the Alotta Fagina you think of so fondly, there's another person who you've never met. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't maintain cordial relations outside scheduled appointments... but it's better not to trespass upon her time more than she's happy with (and how much that is may vary enormously) and it's unwise to assume that it'll lead to anything more, even if that may happen very occasionally.

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If you are smart enough to get into Dental School you should be smart enough to understand that "privacy and facebook" don't really go together... if you post it on facebook you should be willing to accept the fact that anyone may see it And when they do there might be consequences. If these gentlemen want to take legal action against their fellow student who broke the impenetrable privacy they established I will just say... good luck with that. When I entered into this hobby and hid it from my wife and others I understood that there where risks and serious consequences if I was caught but I continued knowing this. If I am outed now as you suggest I certainly will be mad at the individual who outed me but I somehow doubt my wife or the divorce court judge would give much credence to my argument that my privacy right had been breached and therefore I should not be held accountable for my actions. You are right we probably all have thought we would not want to publicly declare... that's why we don't declare them publicly... that's why we don't post them to a facebook group... it's call common sense. See note above about being actually responsible and accountable for our own actions. I don't give a rates a...ss what most people think of my actions but do hold myself fully accountable if my actions hurt others especially the people I love. My position on this all along has been to let the process that the university has in place proceed... the only question in my opinion is what is the appropriate recourse and to be honest that is hard to know based on the limited info we have. Two words... Personal Accountability Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

I do agree that to find out if being cut or uncut is more pleasurable for a man; would have to ask a man who was been circumcised later on in life! Personally, I dont have a preference. As long as a man has good hygiene cut or uncut is fine by me. There is really no difference between a man who is uncut and a woman who has larger labia's. As long as the genitals are clean and it feels good..... Thats all that matters!!

Well, to be blunt, they are there because of the exchange that you do. But then, so are you. You wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the exchange, in other words this is a mutually beneficial arrangement. There is nothing wrong with mutually beneficial arrangements between consenting adults. Most sps do this because they are people who are able to be morally open minded. They wouldn't last long if they are judgmental, or if they were self judgmental for their choices. Many clients are also morally openminded, and non judgmental. It is possible to share time with people that are friendly, fun and seemingly intimate, but are really only sharing conversation in a nonthreatening environment. This is a good thing, and will benefit you in your everyday life. Take and enjoy the experiences, and the sharing, and don't try to put a label on it. I assure you that the majority of sps do not feel taken advantage of in these mutually beneficial arrangements, they will only feel that way if something changes in the agreed upon exchange.

I had the pleasure visiting with Victoria from Paradise yesterday. She is fun to be with, great sense of humour, easy to talk too, and can be quiet flirtatious too. I'm sure there is a following of gents that have seen her pictures, and yet I'm surprised how quickly I snapped up time with her. She is amazingly great in the room with a gent, she has one very beautiful body, in fact I asked her if she worked out and her reply was "No I was just blessed with these legs and ass" . Blessed, well I guess SO! and I was so happy to giver her a massage, what a treat, of exploring her body, my big soft hands to her soft skin, nothing like seeing erect nipples and goosebumps rise on a lady's skin. Oh my bad, here is a visual for all you intrigued visual creatures... :) Thanks Victoria, you were a lot of fun to be with :) I will see you again!

Again to reiterate, no one I believe is talking about criminal sanctions. The sanctions are administrative in nature (ie The Code Of Student Conduct) And this is not a lynching, no one is dragging these thirteen students out to a tree, and hanging them. If you want to call this a lynching be very clear then, students are to read the Code Of Student Conduct. They would know this sort of behaviour is not acceptable. If one wants to argue that terminating a person's career is akin to a lynching (I don't agree with this btw) then these students would be the cause (their careers haven't been terminated yet) of their careers being terminated. They knew of the Code Of Student Conduct yet chose to form a FB group to discus hate sex (rape) of some female students, a clear violation of the Code Of Student Conduct. So if one wants to argue they were lynched, didn't they really lynch themselves, or career suicide. They chose to put a hateful FB group membership ahead of becoming professionals. And as such they were the makers of their own demise RG

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A few months ago a dentist in Winnipeg was convicted of numerous sexual assaults of unconscious boys. It happens. How can you deny it?

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Thank You Steve I appreciate the Apology... my comments are not intended as personal and public debate is often good for all involved. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

What on earth is wrong with sex workers getting together for a social event? IANAL, but I'm not aware of any legal issues with this under either the old legislation or the new.

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You are right we all sin and we all judge as you are in your above statement. Some simply do it less, more inconspicuously. Even I know some subjects are just to serious and hurtful to joke about. Even with my foot and mouth disease. I won't state what their punishment should be because I don't have that knowledge or ability. But I have enough sense to know what they did was wrong, very wrong. On a moral and professional level. Should they be punished for life, no, but they should be punished. Then again, ask a rape victim how long it's taken them to heal from their trauma.

I hear you ... but I think that's a lame excuse. Here's why. My son did something really stupid in grade nine. Nobody was hurt, but I suppose someone could have been. Regardless, the act was irresponsible, and although not criminal, most certainly not acceptable in a school setting. He was expelled for the remainder of the semester. His academics suffered. He was shamed. He was punished. In grade nine. 13 years old.

when did they regress into kids? I thought these were fourth year university students. On one hand we're accused of emasculating the western man, and on the other we're overreacting to a bunch of silly kid behaviour.

Not even doctors are expected to uphold their doctor / patient oath with regards to privacy if they feel someone might be harmed if they do so. About the only person they could have disclosed this to and expected it to stay private would have been a priest, during confession. The fact that the facebook group included the school's name makes this hardly a private matter between buddies in a group. They fucked up. And they got caught.

Hmmmm never ever thought I would want to be a hairdresser but I have got to say I do kinda wish I was there to run my fingers through your hair... now complete the fantasy and tell me your wearing a leafs jersey :p Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

First, are they being denied the chance to explain themselves? It would be nice to hear their side of the story. They are the ones choosing to be silent, and not explain themselves. So all we have to go on is the CBC story and the FB posts. Second was their privacy really invaded? They used social media...social media gets it name for a reason. Only a fool would believe that what is posted on the internet is really private irrespective of the settings on your FB account. The minute you share your thoughts with anyone on the internet you give up any control of privacy. The only way for your private thoughts to remain private is to share them with nobody Third, as of yet, no one, I believe is treating what these guys did as criminal...I may be wrong here. The university is reviewing their status as students and they may not graduate, and Ontario wants the names of those students in case they try to get licenced in Ontario as dentists. It sounds more like some are being proactive, showing concern for possible future patients (and maybe victims)...but that is not the same as treating them as criminals, with arrests, prosecutions and possible incarcerations Fourth, yes it is words they are being judged on. Prejudicial, far from it though. Everyone gets judged on their words. A person's words reflect a person's thoughts. And his/her thoughts control his/her actions. And a person controls what he/she says. These "men" freely chose to post those words, so how can one say it is now prejudicial that those words are used to judge them. With all that being said, wouldn't the university and various licencing bodies, be it Nova Scotia, Ontario or whichever be negligent not taking action under current circumstances. If they allowed these students to graduate and the licencing agencies licenced them, and subsequently they did drug and rape a patient what sort of liability would they face. Put another way, doesn't the university and licencing agencies have a duty to protect future possible patients from students they know have expressed thoughts of drugging and raping women. RG

The issue that I have with the Original poster is that he mentions "restorative approach" to work with the women affected/targeted. Some of these women had no idea they were being targeted. And even if they did find out, part of the restorative justice approach is ensuring the victim's interests are protected without being harmed. How do we know that these women would be negatively affected through participation? From a public perspective, the school has a lot to lose by not suspending even in the interim the men involved. And no comparing what women say about men is not comparable as the effects are not the same; effects like misogyny which contribute to violence against women (like rape!). All of this considering the larger narrative of how these comments affect women's rights. Considering the men's interests, I think some sort of shaming/public apology which is informed by the effects of their actions would have been helpful. They don't lose out on their education but still receive some sort of punishment. Suspension doesn't really address the issue as to how their actions hurt the school community and women--this isn't an isolated incident occurring on one campus.

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A clean, and well groomed penis is always attractive to me. Cut or uncut - I like them both equally. However, i must say, I do like a man who is groomed, or even shaved - so much fun to play with the two boys then.. lol Porscha

There is a difference between drugging and raping women and locker room talk. When 13 guys decide to post about raping women...it gets real in every woman's life. Unless you are a women and have been raped by a man or a mob of men, it's hard to understand. However, women talking about men getting their dick chopped off is not ok either. Ever. It reminds me of my ex husband describing how he's not like a rapist so his crap is ok. Let's understand that ANYONE who is saying rape is ok, needs to be stopped. Whether they are a man or a woman. It is never ok. I have a female dentist because I'm not comfortable being put under by a guy I don't trust. Now I will never go under by a guy for this reason. I'm upset this went as far as it did. The "locker room" crap went way too far. Please don't defend them. This was not "private".

Same experience here, I've never had an issue. Just keep it clean and you shouldn't have a problem.

A strictly north American attitude, circumcision is common here but not the rest of the world. As in everything hygiene and cleanliness is the rule! I've never encountered any problem about being uncircumcised.

Chemistry makes it or breaks it..... Peace MG

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If the new law dramatically reduces business for the ladies, wouldn't it be something if they all got together and sued for lost income? Ha ha, wishful thinking I know. And now I'm wondering, why isn't sex addiction treated as other addictions, and us addicts provided the equivalent of "safe injection sites"?! :P

I disagree. Lots of us use BP as another way to advertise. However, if BP is the ONLY site, then I would be concerned. That's why using cerb AND Google helps to weed out the fly by nights. Do your research when visiting anyone.

Well said Angela! Took the words out of my mouth:) I can also reiterate, that perhaps you are asking too many questions of a personal nature with her? I too, get very uncomfortable with that, and it could cause a small wedge between us. Keep conversation fun and lively, with humor and yes some serious chats is intriguing as well. But if you begin to dive into her personal relationship questions, such as " well doesn't he mind that you do this? Or " how to hide it from your kids?" well it would defiantly a loss of romance and adventure for the lady. One element many men miss, is that most ladies, when preparing for our date we switch into out alter ego. Much like an actor would. I call it " Sophiafied" lol...So by getting into deep personal questions, I loose my alter ego and get into my "me" mode and then I find it difficult to jump back into the sexy, seductive creature that I created for "Sophia" It is not a lie of who we are, but a more pronounced version of our sexy side. Another aspect to be an escort, is that for the most part we are givers by nature. This means, we much rather you spill your stress and worries on us if you need to talk about things in your life that are upsetting for you. Often lending an ear and shoulder if needed. I have had many of my dear clients unload their worries on me. Some heartbroken and shed a tear. But as a professional, I would never do this to a client. Never would I unload my inner most vulnerabilities. Because, we are here for YOU, you are the center of our attention and focus during our time together. So why do we all that? Well for my ownself, I truly love my work, and although "Sophia" is an alter ego, she is still another version of who the real me is. So in staying true to my real self being a giver it is not just a façade. I have a friend, the poor guy is so sweet and nice but always becomes the "friend or just like a brother" from most ladies he meets. But you see, when he meets ladies he wants to dive into their ways of thinking. Becoming like a confidant to them, helping them threw issues.....then before you know it, he missed the mark on when to make the move on them, and now is viewed" oh your just like a brother to me". So as you can see it also can happen in the "real world" too. But in our professional mutually beneficial escort relations, it can happen much more quickly to loose that moment. And that's when you begin to feel like your being "used" or vis versa. There certainly times, even with a good provider that chemistry just doesn't seem to be there. Not much can be done about that but try to enjoy the time and move on. And certainly there are providers that will make you feel like just a wallet rather then a man, that is a live and learn scenario. Maybe think of it this way, when you book time with a lady, think of it as your "man's spa day". It is just a retreat for you to treat yourself. Nothing more then a way to relax and have that human contact.

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