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This is a topic very near and dear to me and one I hope you all won't mind if I ramble about for a few :) As the subject of my post suggests, I firmly believe in there being a difference between lust and love, as well as arousal and attraction. And it is VERY easy for us, as human beings, to blur the lines between the two. I speak from experience when I say that... as I have blurred them in my past. LOVE is a choice. It is something that we CHOOSE when we commit ourselves to one other person for the rest of our lives. It is born out of history, respect, unconditional admiration and acceptance. Out of knowing things about the other that no one else knows. About seeing them at their worst, their most vulnerable, and believing that is when they they look their most beautiful or most handsome; Their most attractive. It comes from complete openness, complete honesty and complete trust. With it comes a desire to be a better person - for yourself so that you can be better for THEM. It comes a complete freedom to be yourself, no matter WHAT that entails - because you know that no matter what you say, or do; no matter how grumpy you get, or how crazy or silly, at the end of the day you are welcomed into the loving arms of your CHOSEN partner. LUST is a feeling. An intense, passionate feeling. It is born from newness, from sexual desire, from excitement, anticipation, anxiousness, intimacy and arousal. It is all encompassing, it is amazing, it is FUN. The reality of this is though, lust fades. Even in a relationship with someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with (because you've made that CHOICE to do so), lust fades. This is why marriages ebb and flow, have their ups and downs, and often fail. Too many people believe that if the lust is gone, then the relationship is over. What they FAIL to see, is that if you make a CHOICE to love someone, and ride the rollercoaster through the next down, the next CLIMB is better than anything lust could ever allow you to experience. The CHOICE to love someone is a conscious choice that requires great effort, great committment and great amounts of work. The FEELING of lust is involuntary. It just happens. It is beautiful and natural and wonderful. But it just is. Let's face it: Being with someone we've CHOSEN to love, vs an SP/client that we LUST for is very different. Even the SEX is different. Sex with someone we lust for is fun, yes. It may even be intense, or passionate. It may leave you reeling, thinking about that person and longing to see them again. It envokes all kinds of strange thoughts in your mind that you are left trying to make sense of. But really, it IS just sex. It is erotic, enjoyable and wonderful -- as is the connection that precedes it. But it does nothing for the soul in the long term. On the flip side, SEX with someone you've CHOSEN to love, and have a history and committment with is the kind of sex that relaxes you and makes you feel all warm and loved inside. The kind of sex that makes you want to stay in bed all day naked. The kind of sex that can make you cry because its as much of an emotional release as it is a physical one. The kind of sex that makes you want to crawl inside them and you still wouldn't be close enough to them. NO SP or client could ever replace that very thing with someone you've CHOSEN to love. And that is why although the client/SP relationship may be good... no, GREAT experiences, nobody will ever be better, or replace the ONE person you've chosen to let in your heart. No matter how good the physical connection between SP and client, they will never replace that very same thing in your bed.

Continue to care. How could you not care at this point. But do it from a distance. Don't read her ads. Don't read her posts. Not until you can do so with some degree of dispassion, some distance. If you need to, leave CERB for a short while to give yourself a chance to be distracted by the Real World. In any event, the most important thing for you to remember is that this is your issue. Not her's. It would be tremendously unfair for you to look to her for help in this. I hate to be blunt, but it is like this. You broke it. You fix it. You are not alone. There are lots of people here at CERB that have been where you are right now. Most of them are willing to help. Chat with people - other people - not her. Good luck as you follow this path.

My experience has been the opposite of extremely rare. I don't do this willy nilly and I do not visit a lot, but with the ladies I do visit with ....the title of this thread "Honesty, discretion and Trust" has been amazing to me. Certain ladies I truly trust wholeheartedly and I suspect you know who you are. Quite honestly I share more with certain ladies and you know more about me in many respects than some of my closest friends. Honesty and trust becomes reciprocal over time if I am trusted and it creates a pretty awesome connection. As Mr.G said you want us to come back. Well the way to get this particular country fella back to see you is....Honesty, discretion and trust. You trust me .... I trust you.... you let me in and know a little about you and I let you inside me and know a little about me and see where it blossoms from there. It's not about knowing everything about each other and falling in love, marriage and having babies. But a trust level and getting to know each other is fun fun fun :) Naked and getting busy, clothed and sipping on drink and visiting or out for dinner or a night on the town, or half naked in a hot tub .... its all fun !!! Streaking down Albert street ....would be fun but might be pushing it....... Anyhooo I probably sounded nucking futz just there....but great thread OD !!!

This is a risk we all take. Much as we work hard to maintain good boundaries and keep expectations in line, human beings are human beings. Everyone wants to be loved. As a species, we don't do very well when we're alone too much. Sometimes these things work out, but that's very, very rare. You might consider taking a bit of time to reflect on your own life and what you really need. We all have aspects of ourselves and places in our lives that aren't quite what we think they are. A super-independent person may not recognize their need for close, intimate companionship, for example. You didn't say anything about your own life, and there's no reason why you should, but if you're married, perhaps there's more missing from your relationship than you'd thought. If you're single, maybe you need more connection than you'd been prepared to recognize. Think about other relationships in your life, too. How are things going with your friends and family members? Have there been major changes recently, such as the death of a parent, the loss of a friend or co-worker? And how is your health? Are you working too hard, too many hours or at something you no longer enjoy? Or are you in a time where you just don't feel like anyone knows you very well? Being lonely is not a trivial matter at all. It's a real life-issue that we rarely talk about, but is important to work on. My point in all of this is to say that if there are things in your life that you're missing, or that you've lost, or maybe never found before now, perhaps if you do some work on those, you'll find what you really need from someone who is in a position to really and completely be with you. I wish you all the best.

I've been reflecting on this thread, and wondering what to post (and whether to post). Of course, honesty and trust are important in relations. And what level of trust you seek with a provider will vary depending on the person, how often you see them and the nature of the relationship that develops between you. I've found that I trust most of the providers I have been with. But, having said that, I tend to see a relatively small group of ladies. Most of them know my name, where I work, the city I live in, and, if they needed to, could contact me directly. I have no problems with this, and not once has that trust ever been abused. Trust, honesty, intimacy ... they are all bound up together, and define the nature of the relationship we, as clients and providers, have with each other. At one level, this is true of everyone and in just about every context. And everyone has different comfort levels with how to draw those boundaries. I draw them one way, others might draw them another. This difference is reflected in innumerable threads throughout the board, but it's always interesting (and useful) to reflect on our own personal boundaries. I know my boundaries have changed a lot. I look for something very different in my relationship with a provider now, then I did when I was starting out 15+ years ago. The level of intimacy has definitely increased. And occasionally, I've learned, deep levels of trust can be discovered. Levels of trust that go far beyond just knowing personal information about a person. This challenges boundaries for sure, and requires a lot of maturity and even more honesty and trust. It seems to me, as I've reflected on it, that boundaries, to the extent that they divide two people and set the parameters of their relationship, are always subject to mutual renegotiation and change. The process of redrawing the boundary line can, it seems to me, to be very much part of a process of deepening a relationship, and finding out unexpected things about yourself and your provider. The difficulty, of course, is that it has to be a mutual process. And once the boundary has shifted, shifting back would, undoubtedly, be a very difficult thing to achieve. Some fairly random thoughts as I try to avoid work. Porthos

Honesty, Discretion and Trust... three of the most undervalued, but naturally assumed facets of the industry. It has always been my thought that the first of these, honesty, is one of the cornerstones of a client/provider relationship. We don't give it much thought - but it is the essential element that drives this business. Taking it down to the bare bones, it is perhaps the most honest relationship a man and a woman can have. Think about it. There are things that you would not ask your significant other to do - not because they are immoral or degrading - but because of the potential for conflict, looks of contempt and accusations of deviance MAY be the end result. You love your SO but to preserve the delicate balance you may bury desire(s) and leave avenues of exploration untravelled. That's where the relationship with the provider blossoms. It's simple. For a nominal fee, you can express your desires and within reason, have them fulfilled. There is a comfort in relaying your desires. You can be honest with her. You can be the man that you want to be. You know that it is in your mutual interest that discussion be frank but polite, and that again within reason, she will not mock you for the simplest of requests. On the basest level it is a transaction; but on the spiritual side, it's miraculous. You have fulfilled a fantasy or just a natural desire and it was simple. That's the beauty of the honest relationship. (cont.)

Please wear deodorant...pretty please! While we as individuals think we all smell nice or acceptable, that may not always be true. If you see an SP and expect to have a good encounter, please make sure that nothing is going to come in between that. As SPs, we are only responsible to a certain degree. If a client isn't smelling fresh, it's definitely going to affect the outcome of an encounter. With all due respect, as for not wearing deodorant and thinking you're not going to smell? Ask someone else that and see what their response is...

Happens to the best of us. We're only human! Don't take it too much to heart. Keep your head up!!!

Greetings all and thanx for checking up on me and this travel! So the results are in from the operation in February: -good news: they took out chunks of bone from the shoulder, additional scrapings showed they got all the cancer!! YAY -bad news: they took out a two inch by two inch chunk of the deltoid muscle, additional tests showed ..... they did not take enough!! BOO So, going to continue with physio four times per week, get the strength back and some tone to the muscle system in the shoulder and especially in the arm (just think of all that up and down movement I must do now as part of my physio Yee Haa!) Saw the docs at Princess Margaret in Toronto on Friday, to get "the schedule", and they ended up giving me a chemo shot which left me feeling like a bag of hammers for the weekend. They will go back in and use the laser knife again in ?November or ?december to take out the rest. So in the meantime, will "play" as much as possible, enjoy the sun, the Ladies of Cerb and hopefully golf in August. In the meantime, offering golf lessons to the Ladies of Cerb (separate thread). Thanx again for all the continuing words of encouragement, it is really appreciated. The Liquor

I completely concur. In this day and age when we, at least in the west, have been bombarded with ads promoting soaps and other hygiene products, I find it absolutely incredible that men and women still wander about smelling like neanderthals. It's not that difficult. Shower. Anti-perspirant. Clean clothes. Repeat. If you have to give a shirt the "nose test" you are doing it wrong. CLEAN clothes. Same goes for the boxers, briefs, or thong. Wear it once. Put it in the laundry hamper and keep it there until it has been laundered. In a world where YMMV prevails, you sure as hell don't want to be left curbside when you have a Ferrari waiting for you. Stinky is not sexy... and that Ferrari wants to be driven by a sexy person. ;)

Thankfully I've experienced that unreal feeling of Out of this World Amazing sex. So powerful, so moving and so explosive. God I miss it and miss her. Many times myself and my ex fiancée made magic happen it was just.. Unreal. Too bad I messed it all up by leaving for Afghanistan. :( She will be forever in my heart. Missed.

Wow, only 4 posts needed, and you explode like this?

While I enjoy my chosen profession, my SP relationships and my personal relationships are completely separate. I didn't embark on this adventure to find a mate. I really hope I don't come off as sounding too harsh because I do understand that feelings can surface. Sage advice has been given and though it may not help heal the heart, it is necessary to move on!

That was me winking at you! :)

enjoying time with a lady you care about ... especially when it's only a few hours at a time, spread over weeks, or even longer, always means that you're subject to that really intense "new relationship energy". Minus all the things in between that happen in a regular relationship that lead to its dissipation. As others have said, if she has warned you and made it clear that your feelings are not reciprocated then you need to back off and exit her life. Of course, this would be the case in any relationship, whether it be with a co-worker, friend, or someone you met at a party. Don't try to book for a while until it well and truly out of your system. Even then, it might be unwise. Don't put her in the position of having to tell you that she won't book you. Porthos

Dear Gabby, you forgot one excuse on your rant. -I'm trying to save money so I only shower and wear deodorant every second day. Honestly I'm confused why any one would not wear any deodorant on a date. I have been to SC and got girls to dance for me and they had a body odor, sorry but just one dance from her is all I needed. Some will get insulted if you tell them politely.

A big smile from a total stranger while walking down the street!

Sweet Seductive Angel here for your Pleasure... TOUCH me, KISS me and let me Drive you WILD!! Contact me by PM, text me at 613-277-4328 , or call the Spa at 613-274-7073 Schedule Wednesday May 15: 10:00 - 4:00 Thursday May 16: 10:00 - 7:00

I really agree with all the other posts on this topic as it is something i feel very strongly about. it is like i always say in order to have any kind of relationship weather it be as lovers or as friends you need to have a level of trust and honesty. this is hard for some people on both sides of this hobby because you have to give in order to get the same feelings. when i go to see an sp i love to form a relationship of mutual trust and respect that even if we need to have 2 worlds in order to do it. like if we meet on the street when we are out shopping we act like we do not know each other and have never meet before, but on the inside we know that this person is really my friend and lover that would help me if i needed it, is a great feeling to have. i always love talking about this topic when ever i can as i think being close to a person really makes the time spent together more fulfilling and special. In my pov what OD said about the big 3 is really true and the one thing i can say is that i have meet some really great people and made some really great friends that i will continue to be friends with even after i have left this hobby.

Just a guess but I guess we know who else offers this service. Lol.

Take a step back from the lady. Don't see her, read posts from her and so on, as bcguy suggests. One thing about this lifestyle is it's poly amorous nature, it's one of the things I like about this lifestyle. So see other ladies and enjoy their company. But give yourself a break from the lady, and also, give the lady a break from you. You don't need the emotional rollercoaster of falling for someone, especially when you know the feelings aren't reciprocated. If after a period of time you can see her without falling for her, have an encounter. If you can't see her without falling for her, do both yourself and the lady a favour, and don't see her. But remember there are many great ladies to see Good luck RG

Brilliant answer, bcguy42, right on the button. I've seen a few friends get caught in this predicament, never a happy one, and the pain they inflicted themselves for letting it happen...

How everything smells so fresh after a nice rain.

Perhaps you have not found that one or two people that you really conect with... you have to remember that after all we are people, yes this is our job.., but before that we are human beings.., capable of loving and caring... We have a heart and this gives us the ability of creating relationships such as friendships that many people could not understand, relationships in which we all understand boudaries and limits.., because we are all about being honest.., I have met really amazing people through Cerb, and have awesome friends... and they know who they are... :)

Wow, OD... Your words are prolific and your romanticism admired. I agree with Peachy very much. It is a rare occasion when I find a client that I instantly feel comfortable with. It is a rare occasion when I find a client that I feel I can trust, let my guard down, and be myself with. I am lucky to have a new client who I already feel very comfortable with, who - on our first meeting I told things about the real ME that I don't usually share within the confines of this industry. I do not take honesty, discretion and trust lightly. It is of utmost importance that my clients feel these things with me, and I feel very lucky when I have a client I am able to return it to.

It's gratifying to hear that it goes both ways, but to a degree I have known that for a while. The relationships we build are incredible in that the boundaries are fluid. I do want to know about you. I want to show I care. I want you to see the "me" I can't show to others, and I want you to share your desires with me. For the briefest of moments, I am your protector. I am the man with whom you can confide your thoughts and dreams. It sounds like old romanticism, but at the moment, the meeting goes beyond pleasures of the flesh. It's a melding of the carnal and spiritual in the ephemeral plane. It's difficult to put in layman's terms. It's a temporary love that evolves into a fraternal bond and vice versa. It's sacred in the purest sense of the word. It's an obligation that comes with sharing our bodies. Not everyone can achieve it, but when it happens - it's real.

(cont) It goes beyond - and the beauty of the physical relationship with your provider grows with each encounter. You begin to feel the ability to confide in her. You know that discretion is her credo. You trust her. That's when it hits you. You can speak to her. You can speak to her about things beyond bedroom fantasies. You can tell her what has been bothering you. You can tell her about the amazing things in your life. You can relay things to her that you couldn't tell anyone else. Your sexual partner not only releases your sexual tension but also those other tensions that exist in your life. Your time together is cathartic. It's better than religion; there is no ultimate judgment. She listens. She may not have answers for you, but she listens to your story. She comforts you. She takes your mind off your other problems. You know that after your encounter your issues will still persist, but because of the nature of your relationship, she has given you a brief respite. For that time you have together, she doesn't judge, she gives. It's therapy for the body, mind and soul. Think about it. It's not just sex - it's so much more. (and thanks Webothscore I needed to complete but the character limit was killing me!)

Simple words posted on my fridge: PatrickGC

I'm cooking Chicken cordon bleu!

Name: George/Georgie Species: Big orange Tabby cat Occupation: Strip club Bouncer My name is George or affectionately referred to by others as Georgie. I am a cat with a unique personality with similar characteristics to that of a human. I am healthy yet large in size at 15 lbs which comes in handy when performing my job as a bouncer at a strip club. I am a very attractive cat with orange and white soft fur with a tiger striped tail that looks almost appetizing. I keep my fur very soft and am very hygienic. I enjoy giving paw for a treat, prefer to go to the bathroom outdoors than a stinky litter box and love to have my belly rubbed. Once in a while if you rub me on my lower stomach too far down, I will grab your hand, bite it and claw it. When I want to go outdoors, I will meow loudly, tap you on the arm or back or lay on the kitchen table if my request is not heard. I always get what I want. I am friendly and charismatic but at the same time I am no non sense type of a cat with a feisty attitude and a lot of persistence! I am in charge to protect the female cats at the bar and if you rub them the wrong way, I will be rubbing you the wrong way! You cannot miss me with my distinct meow and I love chatting it up whether it's just saying hello or a request for something. In the end, people are intrigued by me even if they are not a fan of cats and know I am a force to be reckoned with. This is why take an interest in me. I am known in the feline strip club circuit for my protectiveness and fierce loyalty to those I care and work for. However, once in a while, I will take it upon myself to sample the strip club's creations. Some accept and some decline but at the end of the day I get what I want through my charm and perseverance. Once in a while I will have to use my iron claw when an unruly customer gets out of hand. At times it has gotten rough in going home with cuts and scratches from brave intoxicated customers of the ladies who get out of hand or have wronged them by not paying for their champagne room dances, getting too fresh or insisting on high mileage activities. This is where I come in handy by keeping order in the club. They think they can take me on but my stature, my desire to protect and my defense skills always leaves them lying on the street with regrets of being too ballsy. Despite my stocky build, I can jump high fences and run fast. I love the outdoors and enjoy spending as much time as I can outside whether it's roaming the neighborhood and hooking up with the female cats and not having to worry about knocking them up or sleeping under the stars in tall grass. I am known as the Tom Cat who prowls about at night and for using the fence as my highway to get where I want to go so I don't piss off the neighborhood. My favorite pastime is eating and I also like to visit neighbors further away and some have adopted me as their pet cat by feeding me and calling me a different name. Then I go back to my own place and do a dine and dash usually in the spring, summer and fall months. I am also the alpha male in my house after the other cat died and I overruled my 16 year old male elderly submissive step brother who no longer has the energy to take on this role. If he is sleeping where I want to sleep, I will will grab him by the neck and bite him until he runs away or just attack him for shits and giggles to let him know who rules. I rule in my household and while the owner thinks they are in charge, it is really me! I also like to swipe her ass with my paw in front of her male visitor friends to show them who the boss really is! I am one cat you will never forget meeting!

Holy crap! That's a pile, lol, congrats to our truly sweet cerb gent.

Looking at the member list for the golden shower group may also be a decent place to start.

Great news TL ... hope things continue on the same trajectory. Enjoy the golf with the ladies

1st round of wack .... fuck !!!! Couple or four of these first ... Oooooops ..... shwing and a few misses Another some of these and it's all good :)

Old Dog, I know that feeling of having an attractive young physiotherapist. It's such a shame that such a beautiful woman can cause so much pain in the process. God love those massages though

congrats RG ...looking forward to many more posts full of wisdom and good advice. Porthos

WOW!!!! Great efforts RG:) I have learned so muc from you, and you have my total respect! You are fair, softy..yet never sugar coat your post, and I really like that about you! I hope you never stop posting, as I feel you are one of the major cornerstones to our wonderful community! Love ya RG:)

Al this is wonderful. I have a brewing connection like this with a client (he knows who he is) and I cherish it, value it and respect it completely. Aww thank you!!! I am glad you got involved too. I have to echo your thoughts on the flip side. It is so nice to know, with all of the... Not nice men we deal with in the run of a day, that there are men out there... True gentleman who desire the same things. Thank you for showing us your softer sides ;)

Not everyone can share, that's a given, but there are those client/provider relationships that transcend the "transaction." Some clients just want sex. Some providers just supply sex. For them, that's enough. I speak to the relationships that are built on both sides by willing and perhaps temporary "partners". That's the magic.

What a fantastic experience for you!! What you're describing can be part of tantric sex but to me this is more about connection and energy. There are people in this world that we naturally connect with on many different levels. When we connect with someone sexually or romantically the energy levels in both parties and indeed the energy they create is amped up. When you take this energy and meld it together, then add in the sexual and sensual acts, it is further ramped up. We are always exchanging energy with people, positive and negative which is why you sometimes feel different ways depending on the people you're around. I'm sure in this instance you were exchanging the most amazing energy and that stayed with you after the fact. When you were quietly recalling it, that energy reacted the same way it did when you were together. It's not just energy, it's also the mind: the greatest sex organ ever. If you engage it, you can do amazing things. I've known people who can 'think" an orgasm! The same concept can be felt to a lesser degree when you think about a certain touch you like and get shivers or remember a kiss and feel lips on yours. This happens to everyone...men and women. Embrace it, love it and enjoy the hell out of it!!

Just a heads up with TD Insurance, if you have a degree at a University or College you can go through TD Meloche Monex for your insurance on the motorcycle and save even more. I'm insuring 2 Harley Davidson for the price of one.

Old Dog keeping his khaki's UP :) That makes me smile happy :) Yay ! Friendship folks....Friendship. There are all kinds of it. It's awesome and rewarding and you may even find it in the places you least expect...perhaps even in the deepest and darkest places...when it is genuinely there !!!! .. embrace it. It makes me smile ... It is there every day... not just today.

I just finished watching two new Blu Ray releases. Gangster Squad: Good flick, but for my money the Untouchables was better. The other feature was Broken City: Not as good as you would expect. Crowe and Wahlberg were competent, but the writing was heavy handed and the plot was overly complex. If you are a fan of Russell or Mark then it's worth a look.

I just watched Pain & Gain. As an avid fitness enthusiast I love this movie. I mean Dwayne Johnson and Mark Walberg in a Bodybuilding/ criminal action movie. How can you go wrong?!!! Needless to say. LOVED IT.

I just deleted my previous post, as I accidentaly got you confused with another member, fireman42...who is looking to maybe becoming a male SP. I am not sure if that is your own pic in the avatar, or not. But if you have any discretion issues, and seeing how many firefighters there are here, even local members, your name and pic might give you away. I would hate for you to have an embarrassing moment in the firehall...unless that handle is not representing your profession. Just something to think about.

My name is peanut I'm a male miniature dachshund (aka hotdog, wiener dog) Sp I'm a long smooth wiener, who love to stretch and make myself longer. I may be short but I enjoy playing with bigger dogs. I love to lick and give kisses and my small long tongue can squeeze into to tightest or smallest hole (in the nose and ears) I'm full of energy and will outlast most when play time arrives. I like to curl up and cuddle. Wish list Dog treat Tennis ball Anything that has cotton in it so I can make a mess

I was being silly trying to ad levity to thread. Em, covered it below.

Discretion is as important for us as providers as it is for you as a hobbiest.. We also have family and friends that don't have a clue about our work.. It is to our best interest to keep discretiion and that's part of our proffesionalism and ethics.. No reputable sp or ma would be ever interestested in interfeering with your personal life... Saying that go ahead and enjoy a wonderful time with that lady you have chosen and off course if u are up to sharing the experience I am sure many would like to hear it! Good luck!!!